Toward an AI-Enabled Communications Profession - with Anne Green

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Daniel Nestle: welcome or
welcome back to the trending
communicator. I'm your host, Dan
Nestle.

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I keep saying that the
communications profession is
dealing with unprecedented
change. I mean, that's why I
launched trending communicator.
If we can get a hold of the
trends and the changes happening
inside and outside of the
marketing and communications
professions, then we'll be

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better at our jobs and better
advisors, better communicators.
Today, let's take a broad look
at some of what's happening in
the world of integrated
marketing communications with
someone who by any standard of
measure is a leader and
contributor to the profession as
a whole. Over three decades,

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she's blazed a career path that
so many PR pros dream of working
her way up the agency ladder
from her start as an associate
at Burson Marsteller, to
building leading and growing an
award winning agency to
shepherding that agency through
an acquisition and ultimately
becoming a partner and CEO of

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the new combined agency. Along
the way, she chalked up honor
after honor, including the PR
week 40 under 40, multiple
appearances in the PR week,
global PowerBook PR news Top
Women in PR can go on and on.
She is committed advocate for
diversity inclusion ethics in
our profession. So much more.

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Please welcome the CEO of GNS
business communications and my
friend, and green and it is good
to see you. Hey,

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Anne Green: Dan, so glad to be
here. It's so kind, I'm laughing
about how long ago the 40 under
40 award was, but it's nice to
hear about it sometimes,

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Daniel Nestle: well, we don't
have to specify dates on this
show. I mean, you and I are of
the same sort of generation and,
you know, that's sort of under
the under the banner of no one
really needs to know, but but
they'll figure it out. So, you
know, things we talked about. So
forgive the references

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sometimes, as we as we jam here,
you've had a great career. And,
and I am, you know, I know that
a lot of our listeners are in
our world, and you know, they're
in agencies, or they're on the
client side. I think, you know,
before we get into all the stuff
and buy stuff, I mean, you know,
the changes happening the

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profession, and by changes
happening the profession, I kind
of think we're gonna be talking
a lot about AI but, but there's
a lot of other things too. But
before we get into that, I'd
love for our listeners to know a
little more about you. And you
know, if you can just give a
little overview of, you know,

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how you got to where you are,
because that career path that
you've had is almost textbook
of, of what's a success in PR,
especially on the agency side
look like? So how did you do it?
And and what were the
highlights? And, you know, tell
us

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Anne Green: Yeah, it seems like
really rational and logical. And
what's funny is I'm it's really
quite accidental, in some ways
my undergraduate work was highly
liberal arts focused. I was
lucky enough to and I consider
it a privilege to be able to do
an internship, you know, that's
not something I take for

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granted. It's something that I
think all of us really advocate
for trying to give more support
for those who that may be
harder. But you know, I intended
to be a literature professor.
And in fact, during my time at
Burson Marsteller, right after
it and while I was helping to
build Cooper cats, which is the

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agency that you refer to in the
middle of the journey, before
GNS actually went to NYU and did
most of my PhD in American
literature, in the highly
relevant area of 19th century
American literature with a focus
on Edgar Allan Poe. So that's a
whole lot of goodness. But I
love teaching. But I wanted to

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not go straight to grad school.
And so I was looking for
internships. And I found the
Harold Burson Summer Internship
Program, which was Burton's
flagship internship, it was
competitive, it was 10 people
every summer in New York and
some of the other offices and I,
you know, didn't really have

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access to Internet back in those
days in the late 80s, early 90s.
But I was able to intuit what PR
was, and, you know, make it
through writing phases, and then
interviewing and got that
internship and ended up going
there after graduation from
Vassar College. And I think what
was great is I was like, let me

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take some time. Let me work. Let
me just explore the world before
I go to grad school. So I spent
a few years in person and I was
lucky enough to be there at a
time where there were some very
senior people that Harold Burson
was still alive. He used to ride
the elevator with him, which was
inspiring. Bill Marsteller had

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passed, but I was there with a
lot of people that had helped
build the firm from the 70s. And
some of them were starting to
move on to start their own
agencies. But I got to start in
b2b and consumer marketing. So I
was working with like world
class brands, both on b2b and
b2c. Then it was a great

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training ground. I mean, I
learned so much, and I was in
factories, and I was in like, I
was just learning how things
were made. And learning the
craft. And verson, of course,
was the largest agency in the
world at that time. So we had a
newsroom. I could see the AP
wire and we had a creative team

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we had, they would help us make
the slides, you know, and we had
early access to the web and we
We you know, and I met Ralph
cats and Andy Cooper who were
very senior, and they formed
Cooper cats. And so even as I
went off to grad school, I said
to myself, well, I'll go help
Andy and Ralph, I'll freelance

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for a while while I'm doing my
coursework. And then of course,
that was 96. And 22 years later,
I had left a dissertation stage,
like I'd said goodbye to
academia, which was fine. You
know, I made that decision open
hearted. I loved it. But there
were reasons to leave because I
loved our field, too. And I was

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I ended up CEO and a partner in
the firm. And, you know, and we
were, you know, $6 million
agency by that time and 330
people. So it is an interesting
thing, because once I got into
the career, it seems very
linear, but I really am an
accidental CEO to I don't have
an MBA I never intended, but I

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love organizational leadership.
So I think the loving the
subject matter, the curiosity
about that, I mean, we so many
different subjects you learn in
this field. And I know your
career has been really diverse
down, right? Yeah, subjects. And
then the love of leading people
and leading organizations. And

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it's, it's not for the faint of
heart, but it's so rewarding. So
yeah, that's my arc, which is
it, which is fun to reflect on.
At this point, you

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Daniel Nestle: make me want to
go down memory lane, just a
little bit there. Because now
because Cooper cats, that's our
connection, originally, I had no
cats. And, you know, I had the
privilege and honor I suppose
to, to meet Andy, before he
passed. And this was 15 years
ago or so. I was working at the

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AICPA at the time, and we we
held the pitch and, and hired
hired Cooper cast as a result of
that, to help us with some of
the things we were doing. Killer
team, so much tension. But the
main, the main thing I remember,
from those days was how
attentive and kind Andy

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Anne Green: and Ralph were. And,

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Daniel Nestle: you know, it's
the kind of thing where you
understand the value of that
client, or this rather than I
used to hate a client, but the
partnership that you have with
your, with your clients and with
with the agency, and it's, you
know, it taught me a lot about
what a good agency relationship

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should look like, you know, and
then, thankfully, you know, as
time went on, I stayed in touch
with Ralph, and, you know, and
this is a reminder for me, I
gotta reach out to Ralph again,
because we used to catch up for
lunch every couple of years.
He's doing great. You know, a
and believe me, we're gonna send

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him this show when it's done.
But But what a you know, what,
what a man says, I would say,
but he's he is just such a
genuinely a genuine leader in
the, in the PR world, and in
client relationships, and to
have learned and and been at his
side, and Andy side, too, I
suppose, must have been just, I

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was listening to somebody
calling it the rub, right? Not
not like as in that's the rub,
like, Yeah, but as in, it rubs
off on you in some in some
noticeable way.

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Anne Green: I'm reflecting on as
you talk. And it's such a great
memory. I mean, this is why
we're having a session coming up
soon with our own team about
networking, especially with our
younger team members. And it
kind of reminds you This is
about relationships over time,
and just staying in touch with

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people that you enjoy, and you
care about and you want to. And
as you get older and farther in
your career, you can do more to
be, you know, collaborative, but
what you're making me think of
is this industry can be very
intense, right, especially on
the agency side, but also the
client side to the corporate

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side, right. It's, it's high
performance, it's very demanding
on the agency side, it's very
competitive. It's competitive
for talent. It's competitive for
clients, right. However, I will
say that when I think about how
I came up, and that's person and
especially with Andy Cooper and
Ralph Katz, and we did lose Andy

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and 2013, to cancer, and he's an
amazing person. Ralph is doing
great, but they were indicative
of a lot of generosity of
leadership and is generosity of
spirit that I encounter in this
agency. And you and I, both
being part of page that
community, the PR Council, where
I've been a board member, you

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know, here you're in the room
with other agencies, CEOs of all
sizes. And when we joined the PR
Council in 98, Cooper Katz was
quite small. I'm now
representing, you know, a much
larger agency and with Paige as
well. But I have to say I
continue to find that spirit of
generosity everywhere, even

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amidst the competitiveness and
that shaped me to your point, it
rubbed off on me that I think
with Andy and Raul, specifically
ethics, really doing the right
thing, having an ethical lens on
how you view your work and
holding that line for yourselves
and for your client to protect
both and to bring out the better

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angels on all sides. And then
also kindness, and then also a
really high bar for doing good
work. You know, some of my
enters like, Andy, you could
tell if he was like, this is
mediocre and it's not
acceptable. And I tried to be
kind about that. But I want to
hold a high bar to. And it's a

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very interesting time to do that
as we grapple with this sort of
new technology, as you said, and
I think we'll be arrested if we
don't talk about ai ai, I think,
of course, yeah, well, we'll
come in and shut the podcast
down. But oh, but that's the
kind of stuff you make me think
of in terms of those human

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relationships, it's really quite
a generous industry.

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Daniel Nestle: Well, maybe you
know, that, that brings in
minded, probably a good place to
start the discussion about
change in the industry. Because
the things that you're talking
about, I think, are, are
timeless, and an evergreen,
that, you know, you have to have
that ethical approach kindness,

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eye for quality, or
understanding what quality
really is what's good work. And
we always say, you know, don't
let, don't let perfect be the
enemy of good at cetera. But
that's a really hard thing for
PR people to grapple with, I
found, especially when so many
of us, either were trained as

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writers, or just had that
writing skill that got us
through everything. And I never
went into the world I never, you
know, was trained in any
particular way apart from
academic, academic times,
college, etc. But I always had a
thing for writing, and I always
was good at it, especially

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editing. And I have found that
it's an and that's one of the
unchangeable and unchanging
aspects of our profession, no
matter how much we find the help
in AI, in our little interns,
and assistants, and partners
that we that I call AI, other
people might call them other
things. But no matter how good

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your large language models get
at editing things, they're never
going to get as good as the
people who understand what
people want to see and read and
who get those nuances of
language that kind of defy usage
and defy grammar and defy us
convention. So there's always a
role for for that, but it's

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critically important, I think,

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Anne Green: for us to, to
continue to be great writers

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Daniel Nestle: and great
editors, and I think even
alluded in some way to the idea
that everybody needs to be a
critical thinker, too. I mean,
you have to really examine
everything that you do. And
never take yes for an answer and
never take no for an answer this
question and question and be

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curious. And those things are
our, our I think, threads that
just going to continue to run
through the profession is
everything else around it that I
think is wildly unhinged, and,
and fraying and tying up in
different directions. But, you
know, it's, it's a,

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it's a, it is a wild profession,
and challenging.

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Anne Green: You know, I'd love
to reflect on some of what
you're saying, You reminded me
of a few things. I remember, you
know, being in their careers
when we have been, and I'm a
proud Gen F sir. Me too. But we
got to see a lot of change
happening in a compressed time.
And of course, we got to see one

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of the biggest shifts, which is
writing to the web, you know,
TypePad WordPress, the advent of
blogging, the advent of social
media, the that admits that
advent of two way communication,
which really changed the nature
of comms that command and
control was kind of lost in many
ways, which is a good thing.

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It's a wild world. But the thing
about writing that throughout
that period, I remember hearing
over and over again, there's
always that fear of like say
when Twitter launched, or x if
you if you will, this feeling
oh, it's 140 characters, My God
is going to destroy writing, or
that social media now is just

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bits and bytes. So there's no
substantive writing anymore.
There was also a big discussion,
you might remember the, I think,
was the Atlantic article, which
was titled is Google making us
stupid? You know, because our
brains skill sets are different
now than say, I mentioned before
literature from the 19th

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century, someone like Edgar
Allan Poe had an encyclopedic
memory of what he read spoke
multiple languages, and would
spend without electric light,
you know, nights with a candle
writing just voluminous volumes,
volumes and volumes of writing,
and had to store a lot of that,
you know, we just our brains

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work differently. They're very
plastic. So I think I agree with
the through line point, no
matter how often we've decried
oh, we're gonna lose this
ability, that ability or writing
is not going to matter anymore.
Writing continues to matter. So
what happened was content
continued to be critical, and

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more modes, more channels and
more types of writing short
form, long form feature
editorial, on and on and on and
then video and, and I think too,
about, you know, the modes, our
brains are plastic and will
adapt to different modes and
channels of information
gathering. So maybe we don't

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need to retain as much, but
we'll access it in different
ways. I think so the other
through line is that there's
always been side by side with a
need for writing and critical
thinking, always a worry that
people could work harder at
their writing. And I do think
now, and we can talk about it

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now or put a pin in it for later
that I think we'd all agree the
internet is flooded with a lot
of garbage. I hope our industry
tries to minimize our role in
that. But I know that marketing
comms plays a role in pumping
stuff out, right. So whether
it's paid, or and whatever, but
they're, I do think back to your

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point, that human intervention
of writing that is precise, or
that sparkles, or that has
energy or that's alive, or that
leaps off the page, you know, I
try to say to my peers, and
especially younger ones, I want
to see writing that Selectric,
I'd like to see it be alive,
even if it's a marketing pitch

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or something, or a deck for new
business or whatever. So I think
that and then the critical
thinking to say, what is
something that's really actually
interesting right now, what is
thought leadership versus just a
title that is not really thought
leadership at all? So you're
making me think about a lot of

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things at one time? Well, that's

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Daniel Nestle: good, because we
have to think about a lot of
things at one time. That's the
nature of our of our profession,
actually, and I think I think a
lot of our listeners don't
always understand that, what
they don't understand a lot of
people won't understand PR,
apart from all those people that

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spin things are, those are the
people that, you know, represent
famous people as a publicist, or
the you know, those are just
tiny corners of what we do. And,
you know, the idea of equate and
just if I could step back a
little bit, the idea of equating
doing the good job with spin
absolutely just just infuriates

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me. Yeah. You know, there's a
new AI tool out called Sumo. I
don't know if you've seen it
yet, as sumo AI. It is. It's
hysterical. I mean, it's, it's,
it's, it's in the gimmicky
stage, I think right now. But
with a prompt, you can, it makes
a song, simple prompt, it just
creates a song and the song are

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ridiculously good. Like, you
know, it takes just a few
seconds, and you have, you know,
in the free version, a minute
and a half of, of a song and any
style that you record that you
put in there, and with lyrics,
and, and vocals and everything.
So as a kind of, I don't know,
either a joke or a moment of

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utter internal clarity. I,

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I was experimenting with it the
other day, and I prompted it
with

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you know, write a blues song
about a PR communications
professional executive, who is
tired of waking up every day,
and having to spin the truth,
and just wants to be a straight
talker for a change. And it came
up with this with this with this
song called Shadows of
deception. Oh my god. It's just

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it is great. I will share it
with you later and remind me,
but I was I was astounded
because that's the prompt that I
gave it. And it came up with,
you know, three verses of lyrics
that, you know, on a bad day,
that's my, that's my life
sometimes, like, I'm not saying
that I have to spin for

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elliptical at all, but, but I
am, you know, we're all kind of
pressured sometimes to, to just
make things sound like they
don't suppose to sound or, you
know, but take the stink off the
off the rows or whatever,
whatever metaphor you want to
choose. That's, and it's
infuriating. So, you know, I

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think our profession and
certainly

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the kinds of things that we

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the kind of role that we have to
play with for more and more is
that of arbiter of what's good
and what's not. And, you know,
apply that critical thinking to
say, look, let's, let's ditch
the spin. And let's, you know,
apply the principles of quality
and good writing and, and truth
I suppose, to what we're doing

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and, you know, I think where I
was going with this was that
technology and the all the crap
that's out there that you
mentioned, you didn't say those
words, but oh, I

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Anne Green: might have I think I
didn't It's it's it is

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Daniel Nestle: it is what it is
right? It's garbage. It's crap.
It's

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Anne Green: there's terrible
content downloaded with a lot of
content that's just it doesn't
matter. It doesn't get better,

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Daniel Nestle: certainly doesn't
get better.

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You know, we we are uniquely
qualified to both be the guard
against that,

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but also to be corrupted into
making that kind of crap. You
know what I mean? Like there are
people who will just take the
cash and just make that nonsense
and that's a that's a problem
for for marketers and
communicators out there who want
to do good work. Yeah,

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Anne Green: it's an inch. I
think you're making an
interesting way, one thing you
remind me of years ago, and I
could never remember the source
was, but I remember seeing some
research that showed that there
was probably a higher degree of
ethical awareness in this field
and in many others, because

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we're on the front lines,
especially on the agency side,
but in the corporate side to
have representing things to
other stakeholders. on the
agency side, we have contracts
that have you know, dual
indemnification, because that
which is really legally
important, because we're

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representing information on
behalf of a company like yours,
and, and that and they're giving
us information, and we're both
kind of liable for that. So I
think that there's a lot of
misperceptions about what this
industry is about. But like
anything in human life, there
are the two sides of it. You

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know, there's the angels and the
bad actors. And I think that the
vast majority of our crew in
this field, and I've met 1000s
of people now, as you have just
so many amazing people of all
ages, there is really a highest
standard and a lot of deep
thought about what is happening
with the media. What is what is

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the role of a media in a
democracy, a big messy media
landscape? What is the role of
paid channels versus own
channels, what kind of content
we're putting out there, what is
hitting our stakeholders, and I
do very, very much agree with
you. And you and I've talked
about this offline before this

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podcast that I don't know if our
industry reflects enough on how
well suited we are to grapple
very intentionally and
optimistically, but also
thoughtfully and with a lot of
control over these new
technology tools, for sure. And
that we part of that is really
bringing an ethical lens to it

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to ask ourselves, like, how are
they being used and to be super,
super self educating? And
educating individually and as an
industry on? How are they
changing? And what is happening,
what's the structure behind it,
and all that good stuff, and
also drawing a line for
ourselves and for others that

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we're working with? You know,
yeah.

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Daniel Nestle: And

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the way that we comport
ourselves in the, the work that
we produce, is our way to show
that we can do these things.
Yes. And we just only hope that
either we have the persuasive
capabilities, the influence
capabilities, probably more
influence than persuasion, I
would think, but we have those

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capabilities, to build those
relationships with our
stakeholders, and both
internally, and if you're an
agency with your clients, you
know, that would garner the
trust that you need for them to
start to respect your capability
to contribute in that way, which
is, which is a very long slog,

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and in many cases, it's a long,
it's a long haul. And, you know,
that's one of the things about
our profession that I think
other, you know, other functions
don't necessarily need to
contend with. To that degree,
you know, if you're, if you're
excellent at finance, you're
excellent at finance is pretty

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clear. You know, but if you're a
CFO, and you need to create
insights, for your business out
of finance, that's a different
story, right? You, then you're,
it's not just about how good you
are with numbers and tax code
and all those other things, then
it becomes more about, wow, what
interesting strategic directions

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Have you suggested for the
company and and I think that's
the same thing with us, you
know, in many ways, any, anybody
coming out of college can, you
know, theoretically, edit or
write a document or learn how to
do a press release the basics,
right, summarize the media,
which is another thing we're

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going to need to talk about,
because who knows if that's
going to be necessary as much
anymore. But, you know, to rise
up as you have through through
all the levels of client service
of internal and internal
management structure, you know,
takes a much broader, and I
think more, you know, I think, I

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think a more widely applicable
skill set in many ways. And
that's part of the change, I
think, facing our profession
like we we used to be, I think
that communications or PR and gr
and AR like all these ours were
that kind of pigeon holed into
certain things that you do. Now,
those guardrails, the silos, the

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cages, whatever you want to call
them are

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permeable

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or breaking down. And some
people are not taking advantage
of it. But I think a lot of us
really see

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that. And, you know,

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that is one of the things that's
powering the change in the
profession is that we, as
professionals, want to do more
to help our, our businesses,
because we think we can, we want
to help ourselves, our careers,
we want to expand our
capabilities, and we want to
learn because, you know, so many

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of us are just habitual learners
and very, very curious people.
Yes. So all those things
together, you know, are are
powering the end engine of
change. And we as Gen Xers, you
know, we've been through a
couple of iterations already.
And maybe that also uniquely
qualifies us to deal with the

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next one or this current one,
which may be the biggest one
ever.

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And that, of course, is
artificial intelligence, Gen AI,

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especially with respect to, you
know, to comms into marketing.
So, as we look at a Gen AI and
and what it means, I mean, what
a broad question. Yeah, you
know, let's, let's just start
with some high level thoughts
there. I mean, you know, you
talked about different modes and
channels of, of accessing

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information.

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talked about, we both talked
about

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writing capabilities and
critical thinking, you know, so
from the get go, Jen AI is, is
changing the way we approach
these things and do these
things.

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What are you seeing, as,

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you know, from the agency side,
and as somebody who has broad
view of so many businesses and
types of businesses and clients,
and partners within the
industry? You know, what, what
are like the top things that you
would kind of want to pick on?

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Anne Green: Yeah, there's so
much there. It's so true. And
it's, it's an adoption curve,
for sure. But it's a moving
target. So we've been here
before, it's also an arms race
on the tech side, so many new
platforms. I'm not even talking
about like the big gorillas, and
you know, which new iteration of

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Claude or GPT, chat GPT, etc.
And what other big ones are
Gemini, you know, now, as you
evolve from the Google platform,
I'm talking about, you know,
what's being created on smaller
levels? And also what's drafting
off of those big guys, like you
said, there's like a million new
things every day, right? So

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there's a whole lot of ways
we're racing at one time. And
it's this is true in
corporations and on the agency
side, and the agency side is
particularly acute because we
feel that responsibility to stay
ahead of the curve, and to
really be those counselors,
right? And you don't, there's

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certain things they say fake it
until you can make it that's
just not, that's just not
acceptable or real. In in this
kind of situation. So I think
that there's a lot of normal
stuff we're sorting through,
which we saw before in the
social media era, and the web
three era, which is like, what

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tools and platforms do you need?
What's their cost structure?
It's changing every day, there's
7 million of them and who's
testing what, who's building
what. But from my perspective,
I'm really looking at it at
three levels organizationally,
for us. And then, you know, for
the partners, we haven't really

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the whole industry, because I'm
having these conversations all
over the place on the ground
level. Meaning what is the
tools? How is it proliferating
AI capabilities and tools we're
already using? Because the
enterprise landscape of software
and SAS, that that's where it is
ground zero? For a lot of us on

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a business level? And also a
personal level to how is it
being baked into our, you know,
consumer tools? And then what
new platforms do we need to
test? And then what training to
folks need? You know, and I like
training all the way from, you
know, obviously, prompt
engineering, but also how is it

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evolving, but then use case has
been? And also like, how do we
think about the ethics side of
it, and IP and bias and etc? The
middle level to me becomes,
that's the ground level, the mid
level is about intentional
engagement and execution and
pilots. What are the kinds of
pilot programs we're running

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internally? What are the kinds
of tests we're going to run very
intentionally with clients to
see where is the value? Meaning,
maybe you want more efficiency?
Maybe you want to automate,
automate or eliminate rote
tasks? You know, none of us are
pasting clips into a book, like
those of you in PR would know

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that from years ago. We're not
doing that stuff anymore. Do we
don't need to do that stuff
anymore. So or where are there
higher value things around
personas and content generation
that isn't garbage? That's
actually useful. And then the
top level for me, is where I
really want I invite everybody,

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it doesn't matter whether an
intern here are my partners and
ownership, or your CEO or
someone in school, I want to
invite people to think about big
picture questions like what will
it mean to be human? What is
authorship mean? What does it
mean to have co intelligence or
augmented intellect? What does

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it mean to treat an AI like a
companion in that way? I think
AIs are gonna be companions in
many ways. You know, this is a
wild world, and it'd be very
human and very alien at the same
time. So I feel it's incumbent
upon us all to think ground
level, mid level and high level
and that can also be conceived

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as immediate, short, near term
and far term, because none of us
have a crystal ball. But one
thing I will say is that I've
been around for a lot of
prognostication where it's like
agencies are dead, the press
release is dead. This is dead,
that is dead. And usually, and
it's also not true that

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nothing's going to change. And I
think we've got to be in that
moment. Now to to say like, I'm
going to resist the extremes but
also be very open to some very
radical change

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Daniel Nestle: the tent, I think
the tendency of humans is to
just immediately assume it's a
zero sum game. You have things
behind us that things that are
the way they are in our going to
be the way they

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Anne Green: always are. I hate
there's some thinking, and boy,
do we do it all the time. We do
it all the

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Daniel Nestle: time. And it's
the source of so much. So much
strife, yes. Because you know,
by that, by that philosophy, or
by that measure, if I have
something, then you don't have
it. And it's very dangerous, you
know,

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Anne Green: and by the way, I
just, I can't cosign on that
enough. And it's dangerous
everywhere. It's dangerous.
between two people. It's
dangerous in organizations, it's
dangerous in a society 100. And
it's, it's something we have to
resist. Yeah.

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Daniel Nestle: And I go on,
sometimes about abundance,
thinking and all that kind of
stuff. People talk about fixed
mindset versus learning mindset.
It's all one part of the same,

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you know, pie, I suppose. But

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to get out of our own way, and
to stop navel gazing and sort of
say, okay, yeah, we're going to
change.

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But, you know,

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the profession, as we know, it
is probably going to be a
different profession several
years from now, but it's still
our profession.

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And yes, I,

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I everything for everything I
read, and all the wonderful
people I speak to, and, you
know, being immersed in, in AI,
especially as I am, there's no
question changes could happen
very, very fast. But I don't
think it's going to happen that
fast, where everybody is
suddenly going to be out on the

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street. I mean, that's not the
way it is, you know, Gary Vee,
who I, by the way, don't enjoy
very much. Occasionally, he says
things that are actually good or
true personality, his
personality. Yeah, I'm not I'm
not a follower. But, you know,
he says that, you know, if
you're not using AI, at least 20

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or 30, or whatever, an hour a
day, then you are going to be
dead in the water? I don't, I
wouldn't go that far. But I do
think that in our profession, if
you are not getting familiar
with AI, with generative AI,
especially if you're not
experimenting and

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asking, What if

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I do this, what if What if all
the time, then you will be left
behind, or you'll be relegated
to kind of just trying to figure
out how to edit the next press
release, or whatever it is,
right? So there is going to be a
difference between those who the
I don't even wanna say embrace,
but those who adopt and see the

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way to use AI for themselves and
for their organization, and so
on. And those who don't.

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But back to your three, your
three points,

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three levels, your ground level,
intentional engagement. And I'll
call it philosophy,
philosophical level, those three
things.

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It seems like, you know, it's
not just

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midterm short term, mid short,
mid long term, although it's
helpful to think of it that way.
But I think that people are in
all three of these places at
once, in many cases.

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And it really depends on you
know, what you're trying to
accomplish with that particular
AI are that task? In our case,
or in

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my personal case, I'm probably
all three, like, you know, I
have I have discussions all the
time about this, what does it
mean to be human? Oh, yes. And
it's such a critical part of
this, and we should get back to
that shortly. But I spend most
of my time in the ground level,
right, most of the time is like,

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training people or understanding
the tools, you know, and just
understanding the enterprise
landscape and trying to within
my company anyway,

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spread the word educate,
advocate for

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a suite of the suite of tools
that our IT team has, has, has
created, which is really, I will
say, such an advancement over so
many other companies, like some
companies doing nothing, and,
you know, we have a killer team
in Japan that's been doing
whatever they can to provide

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access to, you know, to this
game changing

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AI and AI, I keep saying
technology, but it's Game
Changing, changing entity thing,
whatever, of AI that, you know,
because I think they recognize
that, you know, the AI enabled
business is the one that is
going to win, or it's the
minimum it's going to be table
stakes for being able to

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compete, you know. So I find
myself in that at that ground
level a lot and just playing
around.

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But it's hard to get, it's hard
to get the word out.

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Anne Green: Here. You know,
there's there's a lot of things
I've been thinking about as
you're talking. You used to joke
that no one had an existential
crisis over a Microsoft Excel
spreadsheet because it's a
business tool and it's real cut
and dry. Social media really
collapse the price In public

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domain, the personal and
business domain, it really was a
collapse of that divide. And it
trapped with a lot of other
trends in society, and
technology and business and
life. That changed the nature of
that that intermingling that we,
we use the word hybrid today in
different ways. But, and I think

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that this tool, social media was
challenging in that way, it
continues to be challenging
generationally, people may be
used to it, but they still have
a lot of feelings about it. And
it's complicated, especially as
they've seen the impact of
algorithms over time, the kind
of unintended consequence that

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we sort of wandered into Jaron
Lanier and others were talking
about it for a long time. But I
think now that this is even more
complicated in terms of how
people feel about it and relate
to it, there's going to be a
very diverse adoption curve.
Like anything, people have to
find their killer app, the first

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time I heard that phrase, which
was more in the.com, boom, it
reminded me of the first time I
saw spell check on the early
personal computers in the 80s.
And I realized for the first
time, why I might want to learn
to use a computer. Before that
time was like, I don't know if I
need this. Yeah, I saw spell

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checking. I'm like, damn, I need
this. And the idea of the killer
app, finding those killer apps,
those moments that is your
personal entree, so it's like,
there's the business tool, okay,
I could learn to use it and
irrationally, understand it, and
how might AI augment me and, you
know, and, and make things

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efficient. And this is how this
works. And I'm playing with
this. But where's that moment
where you cross the Rubicon into
a personal relationship with
like, this technology is truly
useful to me, and wow, it's
lighting me up. Right. And so
you and I both listen to the
Ezra Klein podcast, he's doing

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some incredible deep dives into
this and speaking with people
like Ethan Moloch. And you know,
Ethan was saying that you really
need to spend 10 hours with it.
And part of it is not just like
treating it, like, I will put in
question you give answer, right.
It's more that discursive
process of building and learning

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and also training these tools to
manifest and a personality or a
set of parameters that you can
relate to or that relate to the
business need, or the personal
need. This is a radically
different shift. And I think for
me, as I contemplate this, and
like you'd get, try to get as
deep as I can, and also try to

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push myself to be hands on where
I am also finding barriers to be
like, how am I using this today?
I'm not you know what I mean?
But I think that I'm trying to
also something you said earlier,
project myself forward, and say,
What is this future state gonna
look like? I'm standing in this
agency in this physical space.

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What is it look like? What are
we doing? What are we not doing?
What was hard? What was easy, I
think, project back to the
adoption curve for web one, web
two and social. And I can see
what those shifts ended up being
I can see how hiring change. We
don't look that different, but
we are profoundly different. So

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I am very interested in this
question. And I want to keep
interrogating, because I'm not
100%. Sure. Like I was just
having a discussion with a few
agency CEOs yesterday, like,
will our hiring change? Will the
entry level look different? Like
the these are big questions of
how do we project forward? Where

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the pace of change is so
massive? That it's hard? And
it's and we don't really have an
analogue for it? If that makes
sense? Oh,

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Daniel Nestle: it makes perfect
sense, at least when it comes to
things like web one and web two
and social, you know, it's a
flat screen it's, it's, it's a
one way of what's going from one
way communication to a
communication, oh, well, people
can comment and know this, and
this great Oh, my God, isn't

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this terrible, like, it's this
whole we've been in it, we've
been we've been dealing with it,
we're still in most people are
still in web two. And just
dealing with that, and we're
seeing the consequences in so
many ways. And, you know, it, it
took on a life of its own, and,
in many ways gave technology as

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a whole, a very bad rap and a
high level of suspicion, and
rightly so, brands, people
should be suspicious. And should
or should approach with extreme
caution. Anything that there
anything new that they're doing,
and bias by extreme caution, I
mean, protect your personal
information. I mean, you know,

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like, do the steps that you need
to do now in this world of ours,
you know, it's, you know,
imagine that every time you you
log in to any tool, it's like
going through airport security,
right? You got to take shoes
with less you have that maybe
you have you have your your
facial recognition, which is

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your TSA Pre and you don't take
your shoes off, but generally
speaking, you got to go through
this process. And then you got
to change it up all the time.
Because, you know, bad people
get smarter too. And that's,
that's just the way it is. Now
add AI to this. And it's a whole
new level of stuff. People

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aren't sure whether to treat it
as a layer of technology that
requires the same type of
thinking, or something
completely different. No, of
course You and I both think it's
something, it's both of those
things. But it's also something
very, very, very different. We
also don't know, it's a black

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box, right? We keep hearing that
it's black box, black box, even
more, like you mentioned before,
is doing incredible work in
trying to figure out what the
heck is in that black box.

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Anne Green: I love it.

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Daniel Nestle: I know, it's so
interesting, fascinating. And 10
hours is nothing on this, you
can, you know, it just goes by.
But getting back to something
that you said and and, you know,

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how I think we need to approach
it even, even at the beginning,
is you said

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something, and I'm laughing
because I, I include it when I
talk about AI with people who
don't understand AI or when I
train people in my organization.
You know, one of the first
things I say is you have to
learn a new way of speaking,
that isn't any new way of
speaking at all right? So you

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have to learn, you have to get
past this cognitive dissonance,
that everything is Google, like
you ask a question, you get an
answer. Oh, thank you by done

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Anne Green: like that
transactional neutral
transaction, exactly. In

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Daniel Nestle: the case of
generative AI, as you know, and
and, you know, many of the large
language models that are out
there, you need to approach it
as if you are about to have a an
interaction, call it a
conversation, call it an
interrogation, whatever it is,
you know, that, that you will

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get more out of it. When you're
able to refine the things that
you are saying and you're
thinking, even along the way?
Yes. You know, when you go to
Google with a question, you have
the question, I have questions.
Here's my answer. When you go
to, you know, chat, GPT or
Claude are, you know, and I love

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Claude these days, by the way,
but when you go to church to
your Claude, you know, you may
have a question. But
understanding that, you know,
it's you're walking up to,
you're essentially walking up to
something that has access to all
of the information that has ever
been

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digitized. Yeah, and, you know,
give or take. And if I was going
to ask you an you know, tell me
about an agency. Now you have
your agency experience, you
could you could talk about what
agencies are from this, from
your, your experience at Burson
and then at Cooper Katz, and now
at the GNS for communications

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and for business communications,
right. But you'll tell me about
an agency? And I'll say, okay,
great.

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But really what I really want to
knows, actually, what about an
advertising agency or marketing
agency? Or maybe what I really
want to know, is something
completely different. So if it
was Google, I would ask question
come back. But with AI, I would
approach and then they say,
Well, no, no, that's not what I

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mean. Let me refine my question.
Let me talk to you a little bit
more. And we'd have a
conversation. So I kind of got
to the bottom, the bottom bottom
line of, of what your knowledge
is now with, with AI? And what
kind of questions I should be
asking you, right? With AI, you
know, you, you can have a lot of

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thinking beforehand. And sort
of, you know, understand your
context. And instruct this thing
that has billions and billions
and billions of bytes of data,
whatever. I don't know what the
mountain terabytes, you know,
gigabyte, I don't know. But all
of this data, and you have to
realize that you're asking it a

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simple question, when it has all
the complexity in the world to
search through to get to that
simple question. So you need to
give it a little bit of a
guideline, right, so that you're
not wasting time and go back and
forth and iterate it reminds

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Anne Green: me it is a new old
language, because it's more
human language. But that's too
simplistic and also complicated
at the same time. But yeah, it
reminds me of the early days of
search. We had to be trained and
Google helped to refine this
training of how to do search
now. You went from Ask Jeeves

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for you know, our, you know, our
older folks out there remember
Ask Jeeves, right? Where people
would write very long questions,
because that's you came to it
like human that hadn't been
trained in search yet. Then we
got trained to get really small
and precise about like just a
phrase. And we got really good

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at it. People are very good at
search today. Right? Very, very
good. And then we realize, oh,
Google's super smart. It's
reading for meaning, you know,
this is the early days of AI
it's able to understand so our
queries got longer and we all
know the stats that most
searches like are pretty unique.

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They're quite distinct from each
other. I forget the exact stats
but to go into it more in a
conversational mode. A real back
and forth like you're doing an
interview and interrogation
reminds me immediate training.
This is not interrogation but to
go through it with full,
complete sentences and also

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paragraphs and say, as you said,
Claude, that wasn't my
intention, I want you to rethink
about this in a new context.
What if I was asking about this
area of inquiry, then also,
don't forget, I want you to add
this layer to it in this context
to it. We're not trained to
interact that way with machines.

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We've been trained to interact
with humans that way. So, right,
to me, it goes back to that
plasticity of the brain, how
quickly we adapt. That's right.
We have to confront change and
how resilient and quick we are.
When we find those killer apps,
especially suddenly, everybody's
behavior changes. I mean, the

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second that Google Maps launched
with traffic, everyone's like,
now I need a cell phone, you
know, I need an iPhone for this.
So but it's what you're saying
is very key to how we are
changing now and are going to
have to change and how hard is
that learning curve?

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Daniel Nestle: Yeah, it's a it's
a learning curve. It's a
mindset. And it's, it's like we
said, it's, again, this kind of
cognitive dissonance, where I'm
looking at a computer. So I have
to behave a certain way. Yeah.
But you're telling me that all I
need to do is like, use my
normal natural language and

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something's going to happen.
What that what, what's that
about? With, with people who are
getting the most out of Jenai,
especially, it's, you know,
they're getting the most out of
it, because they, they think
about all the different things
that they want to say or that
they want, like all the

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different different permutations
or directions that this could
possibly go in there. No, I
don't want this to go in that
direction. I don't wanna go in
that. I have it like, I have an
idea. And I want to see if it's
going to work. I'm going to give
all the information I possibly
can. And then I'm going to

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remember Oh, yeah, I think

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it would be useful. If, you
know, if the AI had

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this other information to look
at and oh, maybe it would be
useful if it had this data to
look at you know, and then you
can start to add more and more
in and, and people have to
understand this multimodal thing
where you can you can use
different types of media, and
you can talk about different

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kinds of things. And such a
leap. It's such a, it's such a
jump from from where we are. And
sometimes it's it's easy to
overlook that. Or he's easy to
forget that for those of us
who've been in, you know, deeply
because we love this kind of
stuff. Or we know it's we know
it's necessary, you know that

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the vast majority of people
still are in the question
answered to buy mode. And this
is, I think the very first thing
that needs to really happen in
order for folks to find that
killer app, you know, AI, the
other great thing about AI is,
or dangerous thing I don't it
depends on how you look at it is

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the killer app is you and your
thinking. So at the at the most
basic level, you hear about
things, people creating prompts,
just on their own, a great
prompt, that they then cut and
paste and put someplace else and
hold on to it, because they're
gonna use it again and again and
again, in order to, you know,

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create something that they need
to create again, and again and
again. And guess what you've
just done. You've just, you've
just coded a program is what
you've done, you've coded
congratulations, but you've just
been able to do it with your
natural language. So it's this
making these connections to what

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you're actually able to do.
You've created an app, every
prompt you make is an app. And
essentially, you know if you can
repeat it if you can use it
repeatedly. So the the way that
your mind has to kind of expand
I'd say or

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just drop

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conventional approaches
interpret conventional wisdom.
It's more like that, again,
going back to Carol Dweck, the
learning mindset, you know, you
have to be flexible when you
kind of approach these things
and adapt her Yeah, gone.

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Anne Green: Oh, no, I think that
part of it is that it brings me
back to you know, what is you
know, as an organizational
leader, and as a communicator
that has been working for this
long and as a counselor and
still actively counseling
clients and still actively
training you know, I love media

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training and presentation skills
training and you know, I'm still
actively doing my craft as well
as leading. You know, part of it
is inviting folks to really
think differently so that they
can understand how to engage in
new ways and that's whoever I
run into, or you run into and so
myself and then pushing myself

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to get uncomfortable. It's an
uncomfortable moment. This kind
of change is like really
uncomfortable, especially when
you're hearing the
prognosticators and bless Gary V
for telling us all we're going
to just be right off the ship
you know if I get it right, I've
we've heard that kind of stuff

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for years. And that's the kind
of stuff that I don't have a lot
of patience for. But I get why
we need the kick in the butt. I
get it for sure. And I take it
for what it's worth, you know, I
use it for fuel. But to me,
that's where also bringing it
back down to that ground level,
which is what makes it real.

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What makes it useful. What
brings us to value my another
one of the things I've been
Seeing leaders work smarter, not
harder. How do we do that? And
how do we make sure that,
especially if time on the agency
side of the time we're being
paid for how do we make sure
that time is being used the most

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valuable way? One of my big
mantras to my team this year, is
well, first of all, how do we
show our clients, we're an
essential partner every day,
because that's not something you
can take for granted. But the
bigger part of that is the
Northstar is how do we know what
is valuable to that organization

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or those individuals on a given
day? What is valuable, and I'm
not talking about value in terms
of money, like what's actually
valuable to be doing and
executing. And this is making us
interrogate all of that. And I'm
seeing on the ground level, like
many folks, our creative team is
all over this, because there's

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been a proliferation of new
capabilities. And some of the
core enterprise tools like Adobe
and Getty that are amazing. And
it's helping them do stuff that
was the equivalent of the PR
person pasting clips into a book
and measuring column inches,
masking out stuff and rebuilding
backgrounds in seconds. And, and

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then in our areas, which are
highly, highly specialized
things like agriculture, they
can have their eyes on a field
and know if it's correct or not.
And that's really detailed
knowledge. So that's one and
then the analytics teams, how
they're using it. So it's been
really interesting to me to

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watch. Yeah, where have the
obvious use cases taken? Hold?
Where is that adoption? Where
are people like, Guys look at
this, look at this, look at this
and within the guidelines and
the guardrails we've created?
And then where is it that people
are like, Wow, I feel like it
should be useful here. But I'm

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trying to fight for it. So that
that, to me is gonna be
something I'm watching really
carefully going forward. Yeah,

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Daniel Nestle: yeah, me too.
And, you know, you're making me
think of something that my
mentor and friend, and
occasional co collaborator, Mark
Schaefer has been saying, part
of me lately, we keep talking
about, okay, how learning how to
talk to AI, learning how to
speak with AI, learning this

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kind of new language, and I
think that's a very, very
important and critical thing.
But he just mentioned that, you
know, it's an Adobe Suite now,
and it's, you know, if you go on
LinkedIn, if you I'm not sure if
it's for all LinkedIn members,
but it's a you can, you can
check, you can create comments

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based on, you know, with by with
a click on AI. So AI will come
to you, you don't have to do
anything, right,

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it's coming to you. So
understanding, like,

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the vague, the kind of
complexities of prompting may
not be necessary for everyone, I
understand that. But kind of
understanding the way that that
actually works, will help you
understand how to take the best
advantage of what's going on
inside, you know, Adobe Suite,
or what's going on inside

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Microsoft, office with copilot,
you know, these are, these are,
these are all connected, you
know, the, the, the whole thing
kind of brings to mind, really,
and I think this is, you know,
where we where we're gonna go in
a upcoming webinar that we're
doing together. But let's, let's
talk about here for a second.

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You know,

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talking with AI, and we talked
about

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having conversations and
interrogating, and I like to say
interrogate because I think it's
like that question answer thing
is, it's just kind of like such
a killer interaction. But, you
know, communications people, and
I guess, marketers who are
really well suited for this,
like, we have a very specific

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skill set in understanding the
way humans relate to each other.
That that gives us a leg up. But
we're not necessarily being
given that opportunity to show
that we have a leg up, or we're
not taking advantage of that, as
a profession. In all the places
that we can, we're letting you
know we're letting or letting is

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the wrong word. Organizations,
especially in enterprises, start
with it, because it's a tech
project. It's a tech Initiative,
or an infrastructure initiative,
you know, where they start with
digital, because it's on a
computer, you know, it's on the
web. But,

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you know, I would argue that
it's the creative

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people, it's the writers and the
thinkers, the folks who have to
create narratives

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out of

235
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various kinds of disparate
information.

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The people have to interpret
what's what others are really
thinking, what you think they're
thinking, you know,

237
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these skills, creativity,
curiosity, interpretation,
interrogation, interviewing, all
these things are the core skill
set of the future for AI. And,
you know, comps is I think,
uniquely qualified to do this.
So what does that mean for the
people that we're bringing into
the profession? What does that

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mean for the way that teams are
going to evolve? If indeed, and
I believe we will be but if
indeed we get the chance to show
our chops here and you know, we
really start to leverage AI to
really contribute to our
businesses and to our clients.
You

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Anne Green: make me think of
something I've said to my teams
a number of times over the
years. And I'll talk about in
the agency context, but it's
absolutely true of corporate
side and integrated marketing
communications. And I do use
that phrasing because I think
it's broad. There's so much as

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you said, permeability between
those, although some
organizations, obviously, comms
and marketing are separate, I
totally get that. But there's a
real symbiotic. But one thing
I've said to folks, especially
as they're growing in their
career, is to remind them,
especially those that are on the

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calm side, because we have many
different professionals here,
digital creative paid media,
project management, but overall,
this, this industry is a really
elite profession, in terms of
the skill sets required, if you
think about all the things that
we have to do and try to do
well, and we were very good at

242
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beating ourselves up to
especially in the client service
side, we're like, Oh, my God, I
need to be better at this. But
it's like writing, communicating
all types of forms of writing
speed project management
strategy, like, elite
communications, because most
stuff goes off the rails because

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humans aren't communicating
properly. You know, every
flexibility, resilience,
learning, learning, learning,
you know, researching, sourcing,
and analyzing, and spitting it
back out and says something that
is more valuable than just the
component parts. So I that same
speech I give to people, which

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by the way, sometimes people
have stood back and said, My
God, you're right, I never
conceived of myself this way.
And I'm like, Look, we can all
grow, we all have some issues.
But we need to start and
understand like how elite this
profession is and how much it
demands. So then I very much

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cosign everything you said about
these skill sets, I would add
research and sourcing to that.
And also the ethical lens, and
also the questioning we do have,
how does that work? Why does
that work? Where's that coming
from? When we are in a
corporation or at an agency? We
spent all the time interrogating

246
00:57:07,920 --> 00:57:26,010
our peers or our clients? Why is
that? Where's the proof? What's
the backup? How does that work?
Can I go to the factory? Can I
see it? Can I see who's the
coder? So one thing that I think
first and foremost that our
industry needs to do is start to
recognize and be mindful and
engaged with why it is that this

247
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these skill sets are well suited
for today. But that requires a
mindfulness and education
regarding all the things we've
been talking about, about what
AI is and is not and where is
going. I mean, we don't know
where it's going eventually, but
the way in which it's a more
discursive, exploratory

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interrogative building iterative
process, right? So that's the
first thing we need to take more
ownership of our
characteristics, and really be
mindful and say, Guys, this and
then we need to start to
practice it. And and we need to
be thinking very strongly and
and clearly and mindfully and

249
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intentionally about what is, say
an entry level role look like?
And what are the kinds of things
where we can help folks work
smarter, not harder, because the
curve I want every person here
to come up from intern on is I
want them to come up the curve
as a counselor, the counselor
has to think really deeply about

250
00:58:22,170 --> 00:58:38,040
something they have to self
educate, they have to learn
their industry, and they have to
be have their eyes up eyes in
the work and then eyes up to
understand what's happening. So
that's the dialogue I'm trying
to have. It's like, how do we
work smarter, so you know, own
our characteristics, and own

251
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wide is and that'll help you
actually learn to how to use AI.
And then figuring out let's
actually learn how to be smarter
so that we can offer more value
to ourselves and others faster.

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Daniel Nestle: Oh, you know, all
I keep thinking

253
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of is

254
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moving up the value chain, you
know, now, this whole idea of
being the counselor to the
trusted advisor,

255
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just the the level of

256
00:59:04,560 --> 00:59:09,540
understanding and knowledge that
you need to have about a
business, or about a client is
already

257
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deeper than anybody else in the
business. For the most part.

258
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Anne Green: Because you see
across more of a to that's one
thing that's like someone new
your position is having a
partner, it's not just
multistakeholder outside of your
organization's it's
multistakeholder inside. And
it's incumbent upon you to
understand I need to really

259
00:59:27,960 --> 00:59:36,600
understand the life of the
senior counsel, I need to
understand the life of our
finance team, I need to
understand the needs of our
research and development. Like
that's baked into it. I think

260
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Daniel Nestle: it's also you're
totally right. And it's also

261
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Anne Green: the only I think
it's the only role or the only
function, you know that that
just has to know everything like
across

262
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Daniel Nestle: the entire
organization, but for the
purpose of connecting dots. So
like It's one thing to say,
Yeah, I know what's going on in
that factory, or I know it's
gone. It doesn't know it, it
doesn't do anyone any good.

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If you can't add to that, in
some

264
01:00:10,650 --> 01:00:27,060
way, in an additive way that
nobody else is thinking over
that, or that people are not
necessarily in the mindset to
come up with, what is the dots,
what is the.or dots that need to
be connected with this
particular issue, you're on a
conversation, you're at a
meeting, if you're an advisor,

265
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and a counselor and the
communication side of things.
You know, you're in a leadership
meeting, and people are talking
about a people are talking about
B, you understand ABCD, EFG,
through y, and z, at a very, you
know, maybe at a surface level,
but you kind of get it and
you're like, wait, you skipped,

266
01:00:44,700 --> 01:00:45,540
you skipped E,

267
01:00:45,810 --> 01:00:54,750
or, you know what, I heard
something about this over there,
that you're not taking into
account. Or might what

268
01:00:54,750 --> 01:01:13,320
happens a lot, a lot more often
in corporate comms is, you know,
this is everything that you're
talking about with brand and
with product is terrific. There
is our corporate mission and
corporate sustainability. And
there were announcements by the
CEO last week, we can plug this
in here, because it's it not

269
01:01:13,320 --> 01:01:29,760
only supports what you're doing,
it enhances and maybe gives you
some new insights and
perspectives about how you might
want to better market this
product, or you know, what your
narrative should be. And it's
that additional information, the
additional, I guess,

270
01:01:31,620 --> 01:01:33,330
package packaging, of different

271
01:01:33,330 --> 01:01:44,460
pieces of information that you
have, you know, it's really
important for the comms person
to be the nerve center of an
organization or the comms team
to be the nerve center. And, you
know, back to AI.

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01:01:46,140 --> 01:01:47,250
How can we,

273
01:01:48,270 --> 01:02:08,940
you work with AI to enhance that
role. And it part of it is,
well, we can, at the, if we're
in the if we're in the ground
level stuff, part of it is,
well, AI can now do a lot of the
grunt work, right, so that we
can now focus our minds higher,
which is really, really
important because time is your

274
01:02:08,940 --> 01:02:19,830
friend here. But there's also
ways that we are not we haven't
discovered yet, or that we're in
the process of discovering that
will enhance that

275
01:02:20,280 --> 01:02:21,270
those connections

276
01:02:22,500 --> 01:02:38,430
that will enhance what you're
doing. If I have the I'm at the
point now, where, you know, if I
have ideas about something, I
may not blurt them out in a
meeting, but I'll take I'll take
them away. And I'll create a
mind map or something. And, and
by the way, when you talk about
AI coming to you, I use a tool

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called X mind and X mind AI now
has the capability for as you're
creating a mind map, you click
on one of the branches of the
mind map and you hit the little
AI buttons going to come up with
seven 810 potential branches to
that, to that to that branch. So
it's a killer brainstorming app.
You know, that said, you know,

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01:03:00,930 --> 01:03:18,870
I'll take my idea. So go back to
think of it think it through.
But now I have a friend, I have
a little, little smart friend,
my friend, I have a colleague
calls it your smart friend, I
call it my intern, our CEO calls
your power suit, however you
want to describe it. Now you
have this capability to say you

279
01:03:18,870 --> 01:03:33,300
know what, I've been thinking
about these things. I need you
to act like a strategic adviser.
And I need you to kind of walk
me through a few things. This is
my, this is what I heard. This
is what I'm thinking, how can
you help me connect these things
together?

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Can you validate what I'm
thinking?

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Can you come up with some some
other ideas? You know, and it's
like having this just new
employee who's super smart, but
but quite dumb, because they're
not directed? You know, so you
have to direct it properly, but
then you're gonna get so much
out of it, you know, and they
lie. So it's a little it's a

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little intern that lies
sometimes doesn't know what's
lying. But I

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Anne Green: know, we haven't
talked about the beautiful
euphemism of hallucinations, but
just, you know, part of the wild
world that we live in right now.
Well,

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Daniel Nestle: sometimes they're
straight up lies, and sometimes
they are hallucinations. You
know, you mentioned to Gemini
before and I've had my issues
verified. We'll have to save
that for another time. I think
we have we have so much here
that we've spoken about. And I
really appreciate your the

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framework that you offered,
really about how we're
approaching AI at these at these
three levels on the ground
level, and then the intentional
engagement part part of the
process. And moving on to this
philosophical question, and I'm
going to, I'm going to leave it
with that that philosophical

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question almost. The last with
the last thing I want to ask you
before we wrap up, which is
maybe not related to AI, but
maybe it could be but it's just
this the question I asked a lot
of my guests which is what's
keeping you up at night these
days and and, you know, if it's
related to everything we've

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talked about, that's cool, too.
But, you know, what's like,
what's keeping up what's the
last things that you would your
last words she would say to our
listeners,

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Anne Green: oh my gosh, I don't
want to become very dystopic. At
the end of our wonderful
conversation. I am kept up in
with a connection with what
we've been talking about with
just the proliferation of
divisive pneus and fake stuff
online and very much engineered.
You know, I really put it in the

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category of disinformation or
also the convenience to many
actors around the world, both
either for money or for nation
state meddling to rile people up
and create rancor and anger. And
that is upsetting to me, I I'm
thinking a lot about the fact
that there is many issues that
are could become politicized,

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01:05:42,210 --> 01:05:57,810
that I think are actually really
just important for us as a human
society, like inclusion, and
understanding the differences of
strength. And that's true of the
states and the political
landscape with the election
year. So that stuff keeps me up.
But I think also just the state
of the world I want to I was a

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Star Trek fan for years. In Star
Trek, there was sort of a
feeling underneath of
utopianism. And that as much as
humans would screw things up
that we the plucky humans would
pull it out at the end. That was
really Captain Kirk's whole
personality. While Spock was
like, I wouldn't advise that and

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01:06:15,240 --> 01:06:35,100
Captain Kirk's, like, Let's go
for it. We're the plucky humans.
So I'm really hopeful. While I'm
also worried about where we're
at right now, because we're at a
lot of crossroads, as usual. So
running a business, I love to
see resilience, I love to see
the economy doing well, and
dealing with a lot of weird

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curveballs. And I'm really
grateful the resilience of our
people. So I have a lot of
confidence, but I'm definitely
watching the big picture
landscape. And the AI is a big
part of that. Because when
you're asked to shepherd, an
organization, whether you're
internal or running it as I am,

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you know, that's a lot of
responsibility. And I feel the
need to keep my eye on the big
picture here.

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Daniel Nestle: Yeah. And thank
goodness you are I mean, we need
more people like, like you who
are looking at the big picture.
I would like to be a little
little hopeful. With Yeah, my
thinking about AI. And, and my
hope is that humans, by nature,
are inventive, and creative.
And, you know, again, back to

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what we, where we started, this
is not a zero sum game, things
are going to change and continue
to change. And they have the
potential to really change in a
terrific way. On that note, and
I think our listeners, if they
want to reach out to you, they
can just go to je s
communications.com. They can

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01:07:30,870 --> 01:07:39,570
look up and green on LinkedIn,
that's an with an E and Jean
with a green with no E. I often
had them fuse, but and green
anyplace else that people should
be looking for you and really

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Anne Green: LinkedIn. Yeah, and
green, and she is
communications. That's our
website. And you know, I'm
always happy to connect. These
are big picture issues. I love
being in touch with folks like
you, Dan and others talking
about these. So I do welcome
people to reach out and connect.

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Daniel Nestle: Thanks so much.
And I know we're going to be in
touch a lot more in the near
future. So again, thanks. Thanks
for coming on the trending
communicator and appreciate it.
Thank you.

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Thanks for taking the time to
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