The Cobbler's Children Have No Shoes But AI Can Help - with Natalie Moran

Dan Nestle [00:00:00]: Welcome or welcome back to the trending Communicator. I'm your host, Dan Nestle. In case you haven't noticed, we're living through what some are calling a trust recession. Audiences are more skeptical, media landscapes are fractured, and the old playbook for building credibility isn't working the way it used to be. At the same time, communications work itself is evolving. AI is reshaping everything from content creation to audience engagement. And the leaders who get this are the ones getting tapped for bigger roles and more influence. But here's the paradox. We are the people who can navigate a crisis, build a brand, or shape a narrative for others. We know how to position companies for success and guide executives through complex communications challenges. Yet when it comes to our own visibility, when it comes to positioning ourselves as leaders in this rapidly changing landscape, look, many brilliant professionals are struggling with exactly that. It's fascinating, really. We can create narratives and positioning strategies for our CEOs, but we struggle to articulate our own evolving value. We can manage messaging for millions during a crisis, but we can't figure out how to position ourselves for that next strategic role. And in a world where communications work is becoming more technology enabled, more complex, and more essential to organizational success, invisibility isn't just limiting, it's a leadership liability. It is communications malpractice. My guest today has built her practice around solving exactly this challenge. While helping teams navigate responsible AI integration. She's managed crisis messaging for millions of people. She's worked at the highest level of government and secured coverage in major outlets. But she recognized that as our field evolves, so must how we position ourselves within it. So she founded Comms Futurist, where she helps communications leaders step into the recognition they deserve. Because if you can't articulate your value in an AI enhanced, trust challenged world, someone else will define it for you. Please welcome to the show, my friend and an incredible AI thought leader and communicator, Natalie Moran. Natalie, how are you?

Natalie Moran [00:02:16]: Hi Dan. I'm good. Thanks for having me. Thank you.

Dan Nestle [00:02:19]: It's good to see you, you know.

Natalie Moran [00:02:20]: Good to see you too.

Dan Nestle [00:02:21]: I was thinking about this like the kind of little facts and figures about your career and you know, before we really get into the meat of what we're going to talk about, I wanted other our listeners to hear a little bit more about you. But you know, you, you have become a voice in, in this, certainly on LinkedIn and across other channels, but you know, anybody's paying attention to AI for comms, you know, there's, there's not A lot of people, you know, there's maybe a couple dozen who keep coming up at the top of my feed or whose name keeps popping up. And I increasingly see myself, you know, grouped with them. People I don't know necessarily in these. Oh, you have to listen to this person, you have to read this person. Your name is in that list, in those lists all the time, right? You're, you're doing a great job of positioning yourself of your own brand, your own personal brand. And, you know, I think that you have really kind of come to the fore in the last couple of years as, you know, somebody people really need to be listening to. So I'm super pleased to have you on the show. And, you know, I'd love to hear, and I'd love our listeners to hear, like, what got you in this mess in the first place? Like, you started off doing, you know, government work and, you know, being, being in a, in a press office and ended up being one of us. Crazy. I don't know. I don't know if we call us insane, but certainly like ridiculously AI obsessed communicators out there. So how'd that all happen? And thanks again for being on the show.

Natalie Moran [00:03:59]: Well, thanks for that, Dan. I, I followed your work for a long time, since long before I started comms Futurist. I've been a fan of this podcast for a long time. So the fact that I'm showing up on your feed is a very good sign in my book.

Dan Nestle [00:04:15]: Wow.

Natalie Moran [00:04:16]: So, yeah. So after grad school, I moved out to Washington, D.C. and started my career on Capitol Hill doing press and was there for a while and then went into nonprofit comms advocacy, federal nutrition policy advocacy, media relations stuff, and then into education. And, you know, I was a solo comms team three different times. I never had corporate comms experience. I never worked on a comms comms team that had a dedicated internal comms function. And I faced quite a bit of burnout. And coinciding with this, I was seeing all of these studies around the rampant rates of burnout in the field in the profession for comms and PR folks, right? And coinciding with that, I was learning as much as I could about AI and automation, and I was super fascinated by it. And what I realized is, is there are automation and AI tools that I believe can help communicators do more of the work we love. As a solo comms team, again, three different times, I was bogged down by so many, you know, mundane, repetitive tasks, so many of which I realize now could have Been automated. Right. And you know, I think the topic of AI is a complicated one. I really kind of like to explore the nuances of it. Right. And I want to be clear about the challenges and what it really means for our profession. But I really do believe that it can allow us to do more of the strategic and creative work that frankly makes us human. And that really gave me a lot of hope in a time that I really needed it. Right. And so about a year ago, I started posting regularly on LinkedIn. I would say six months before that. You couldn't have paid me to like something on LinkedIn. I mean, I truly was, you know, averse to the idea of even showing up at all. Right, right. And I started posting, I started kind of putting my thoughts out there around AI and comms started getting a little bit of traction and then back in February went into comms futurist full time. And from then, from that point, have really just been exploring kind of what the landscape of AI and comms looks like. I've been working with comms consultants and executives on building their personal brands, making sure that, you know, not only to your point in the intro, are they messaging their organizations and their, their products and their bosses, but also themselves and just really kind of thinking through what the, the world of comms and PR looks like right now and how we can adapt and make sure we're, we're future ready. So.

Dan Nestle [00:07:23]: Yeah, well, thanks for that. Thanks for that because that puts everything in a pretty good context. And I have. So even from what you've just said there, like, I'd love to go down a couple of, couple of roads of conversation and just get your, get your take on, on a few of those items. And I know, I know we have a lot to talk about, but you said something really interesting about how essentially how AI can free us up to be more human, you know, and that aspect of, of it, I think is one of the reasons why so many of us really love it. But we're having a difficult time, I think, communicating that to people or, or, or, or maybe it's just not believable. I don't know. What's your, like, have you experienced this? Have you been getting any pushback on that at all? Or is it more like a rah rah, yeah, sister, let's make it happen. Or because I'm, I, I occasionally get like, never in public when I write something on LinkedIn and so some of it's like, it's like, oh, yeah, say that again. But occasionally I get messages from people like, I. I see what you're saying about it being human, but it's going to take jobs and et cetera, et cetera. And. And I know I don't want to go down that dark road, but. But it's hard to. To convert, I suppose, people. I feel. It almost feels like a. Like a religion in some ways, and I hate that about it. But how do we, like, have you, have you had that kind of pushback and how, how do you address it?

Natalie Moran [00:08:54]: I think a lot of it has actually been internally in my own head, grappling with it. I always say, and we've talked about this, Dan, that AI adoption is really one big change management project. Absolutely. And that is because there are so many different mindsets and perspectives and emotions around AI that leaders have to navigate when they are introducing it to their teams and trying to benefit from this technology. And, you know, when some, for some people, when they hear AI, it's emotionally triggering for them. It can be exciting, it can be scary, it can feel threatening, intimidating, all the things. And so I think I. It's been interesting to kind of reflect on my own journey with this stuff and talking about it in public. Right. Because as a communicator, I want to be careful about not over hyping it. Right. Or oversimplifying it. And I think at first I was very much on team. This helps us be more human. This helps us do our jobs better. I wasn't really talking about, oh, it'll make us more productive. Because I'm less interested in that. It's important, but I just personally don't get as much kind of excitement from that. And now I am really kind of trying to figure out what is the next phase of how I talk about this publicly and how I message AI and comms and what I'm comfortable with. Because, you know, I used to say, AI won't take your job. Someone who knows AI will. And I don't say that anymore.

Dan Nestle [00:10:31]: Yeah.

Natalie Moran [00:10:31]: And I've never felt totally comfortable with it because it's like, okay, well, obviously, you know, things are changing so fast. How can you really say that? But that really has been an interesting lesson for me in predicting the future is kind of a fool's errand as far as I'm concerned. It's funny because the name of my company is Comms Futurist, but I really see myself as more of an explorer. Right. Of what's out there, what's possible. And so I'm now at this point where I, you know, again, like, Dark hole. We don't need to go down. But the reality is AI is going to replace jobs. It's changing jobs. What does that mean for the pipeline of PR in comms as far as like the workforce PIP pipeline? So many implications. And so I am trying to figure out what, you know, what does Natalie want to say about, about AI and comms? Because, you know, I, I think, I think something to your point is we're not going to please everyone and that's certainly not the point. But I, I don't want to give people kind of a false sense of hope and security if that's not what we should be doing. Yeah, that makes sense.

Dan Nestle [00:11:44]: It makes sense to me because I'm in the same discussions with you partly, but also because I think good communicators and if I may, I can put myself in that group, have to consider the, as you say, responsible use or the ethical use your own. Sure. Ethically, we need to look at AI, what's it do to, you know, to, to original material and to original thought and to copyright and all this kind of good. Yes, of course we need to look at that from, it from an ethical and legal standpoint. But it's more about, it's more on a personal level. I think that I'm hearing the struggles and, and you, you know, I'm, I'm, I admire that you've said that you're still trying to figure out how you want to talk about it moving forward. I think, I think that's, most of us now are figuring that out or trying to figure out what, how we talk about it. But I feel like we have to diffuse a couple of bombs first. Like we have to go in there and say, okay, let's take that statement. AI won't take your job at somebody who knows AI will. You're not comfortable with it, right? I'm not comfortable with it. Most people, most of the people I know who are in our world are just think it's, it's.

Natalie Moran [00:13:02]: Mm.

Dan Nestle [00:13:03]: But at the same time, people who are not in our world are just like, oh, chatgpt can write all the, you know, all the emails or do all of the, the, you know, do the basic analysis of these charts or confined errors. So I'm, you know, I'm a mid level salesperson or whatever. It's gonna just take half my job away from me. They never say the full job is gonna take half my job, which might as well be, you know, it's going to take my job and it's, it's Difficult, I think, to give a lifeline when we don't know what's going to happen. But also because conceptually it's hard to, it's hard to understand. So let me just pull back a little bit. When you are looking at the future and I, and I also agree with you the way you kind of talk about this whole comms futurist. Being a comms futurist. I had that on my profile for a little while and I was like, no, no, no, it's, you know, it's too self aggrandizing. I'm not a futurist. And then I went with practical futurist because I do think a lot about the future, but I try to think practically about it. I don't know if it's on my profile anymore. But yeah, we have to think in practical terms. But you know, we're looking at how we're gonna, you know, how we are dealing with this whole, these changes that are happening to people's jobs and we can't predict what's going to happen tomorrow or never mind the next day. All we can do is predict in a linear fashion based on what we already know, which is going to be wrong. Add to that the lack of abundance mentality when it comes to your own livelihood, I can forgive that you think, okay, something's going to be taken away because there's something new. Rather than think in an additive and an additive way or with an abundance mentality like, wait a second, this is going to create more opportunity. So how does that work for me? These are questions that you can only answer for yourself or maybe leaders can answer within their organizations. You know, so we have to go and I think rewire people a little bit and then when it comes to ethics and I, I will hand it over to you in a second. I'm sorry, I'm on a soapbox.

Natalie Moran [00:15:20]: But you're saying, good, fair enough.

Dan Nestle [00:15:25]: But I'm just, I'm just setting the stage a little bit because these are really important discussions. Like, you know, when it comes to your own ethical standing or where you feel how you're struggling with how I feel about this and you know, AI makes us more human. These are great things to say. But I think like recently I spoke to one of my clients and she said something really interesting about struggling with the idea of using AI to create her own content. You know, and eventually going through the process and working through the different tools and looking at how essentially how the content is being created. She had this aha moment where she said, Wait a second. It's using my own stuff, in this case, the way that I set it up, right. It's using all of my own thoughts and my own content. It's not going out there and reaching for stuff that I haven't thought about. So it's just helping me to rework my own thinking. Yes, he said, and the content it's creating is not published automatically. I have to look at it and read it through, right? Like, yes. So why should I feel guilty about it using my own content for me? I said, why indeed? And she said, honestly, I thought that it was just going to make stuff up that I. I wouldn't be comfortable saying. I said, that's what most people feel like, okay, make stuff up. And then you go out there and misrepresent yourself, then you have an ethical issue, you know, and incidentally, when you are using AI to assist you and work with a lot of stuff, I think we're in the. We're in the period of time where you do have to sort. You do have to say, by the way, I'm assisted by AI, and it's an ethically right thing to do. But anyway, I've just given you a ton of stuff, and I'd love to hear your thoughts about this, about the future of work, about the whole idea of, well, am I on the right track or am I on the same track as you are, Natalie?

Natalie Moran [00:17:25]: Yeah, lots of thoughts. First, I want to clarify, I don't know that I think AI can make us more human. And I'm not even really sure what that means or what that looks like. Right. But I do think it can free us up to do more of the stuff that we uniquely can do as humans. Right. So I just want to make that clarification. I went through this phase, and I think I still see this happening in myself where I would have conversations with friends and they would really be very critical of AI. And I felt myself getting really defensive, right? And I thought, why? Why am I getting so defensive? Like, this is kind of ridiculous, you know, I mean, and what does that say about me? And I kind of went through this whole exercise of reflecting on that, and I. I think what it is for me is I see such value in it. And for me, it has been such an opportunity to rethink how we do work. And, you know, so I. A few months ago, I hosted a panel series all about comms and AI, Right? And we did a few different sessions, had some great panelists, and it was interesting. My biggest takeaway from that series was how important it is to know what you value and the value you bring to your work. Because if you know what you value and if you can kind of stand in those values, no matter what's thrown at you, no matter what tool, no matter what kind of ethical dilemma, if you know what you value, that is incredibly important and incredibly helpful as far as kind of not straying too far out there and kind of getting lost in some of the nonsense around AI and some of the kind of ethical blurriness. Right. And also knowing the value you bring, which, you know, really is. Goes into a lot of my work around. Around helping comms professionals kind of tell their stories. But I. So, so anyway, I guess to say, you know, I have experienced my own kind of deep emotions around this stuff, and for me, it's been a real opportunity to think about what is. What is it that I value and, and what kind of unique value can I bring and how can that be augmented by. Augmented by AI. Right. And so those are some of my initial thoughts about what you said. But it's. It's a very interesting time because I think a lot of what we know about our work and how we work and how we represent ourselves is being questioned, and people like us are sort of needing to answer for that. Right. And we kind of signed ourselves up to do that. But it's. It's challenging, and I, I have to really grapple with it a lot and figure out what I'm comfortable with and, and what I'm not and where I can stretch myself. And it's been really quite, quite interesting.

Dan Nestle [00:20:28]: You know, at the risk of sounding like a little bit of a crybaby, it's like the burden is real. Like, I, I don't think people should go out and position themselves necessarily as an AI expert. Right. Unless you are a technical genius who's been working with machine language, like neural networks, all the kind of stuff that I'm. The words that I'm saying that I truly don't understand myself. You know, you understand the difference between generative and discriminative AI. You understand, you know how to put, you know, how to implement it. Those are AI experts. We're people who have been given a huge gift in a new technology that happens to be AI. You know, I don't know. I think we need to rebrand that a little bit in ourselves to say, not. We're not that we're AI experts. We're just. We're just really good at talking to these things now and then really Good at experimentation, have, have a lot of curiosity. So we figure a lot of shit out, you know. But that said, we're out there and people see us as the all knowing, like, okay, you know a lot about AI. What, what advice do you have for me? And I'm happy to give that advice. However, it's dawned on me and it's certainly a while ago it dawned on me and that, wait a second, you know, I am sort of now becoming this person who talks about ethics in a disruptive, mind blowing, sort of world changing technology, you know, that I don't have the certifications or the sort of, or the sort of training or anything. My training is in communications and in marketing. Right, I get that. And, and I have wisdom and experience of a sort, you know, but no other qualifications. So the burden on like being the person who says, yeah, here's what you need to do ethically, that's a lot, that's a lot to deal with. And it kind of goes back to your burnout point where comms people are often seen as the conscience just because of the role we have. And I think that's being accelerated. Just like everything else. It's accelerated and enhanced by AI or by the advent of AI. And maybe we're the, the brave souls are the fools who have gone ahead and said, no, no, I'll take this on, you know, and I realize I'm, I. It does sound a little, it does sound a little bit like not crybaby, but a little over inflating things a bit when I'd say it that way. But you know, I do think about it.

Natalie Moran [00:23:15]: Well, I mean, I think if we're gonna be out there talking about it, we are responsible for, for how we guide people in it, right? And that's the work that I really take seriously. And this is like what keeps me up at night, right, Is, you know, when I first started this work, I would do these networking calls and people are like, so how did, how are you trained on AI? Right? Because to your point, like I'm not an expert in machine learning and all, you know, whatever. They're like, what courses, what certifications? And I mean, I was like, I mean this is, you know, this has been my own exploration and it's really been almost a hobby and like this exercise in kind of wonder and awe to be like, wow, it can do that and wow, it can be a thought partner in that way and wow. I mean it's, it's, it's. And that's. I keep coming back to this Word of exploration because that's really kind of how I've approached it and trying to keep an open mind and be clear eyed about it. But I, Yeah, I guess it's, I don't, yeah, it's, I see some people out there claiming to be AI experts who clearly aren't and I am very, very, I've been worried about kind of falling into that category just kind of by, by association. Right. Yeah. And, and that's not, that's not who we are. Right. But it's, you know, there are, there is a lot of snake oil out there when it comes to AI and that is I think, a real turn off for people and something that I don't want to fall into. So I think it, it, it's good because it keeps me very kind of critical and thinking critically about these things and. But yeah, I mean, to your point, it is, we've taken on this responsibility and that's kind of the path we've chosen and there are ups and downs, pros and cons to it.

Dan Nestle [00:25:08]: Yeah, I, I do recall the social media parallel. You know, you have, all of a sudden you have social media experts after like people who've been on, you know, when Twitter launched three weeks later you have these Twitter experts and so on. Now, X, whatever you want to call it, it's a cycle. It is a, it's a mark of the wonders of our capitalist society that rewards, that rewards the ambitious and the people with ideas and I love that. But you're always going to get a lot in the mix that don't belong in the mix and we can only hope that it sort of evens out in the long run and the, I don't know, the cream rises to the top, something like this. But yeah, I think it's a weird time because after ChatGPT came out in November 22, I think I gave my first workshop on AI around summer of 23. You know, six, six, eight months who be like what? At the time I thought it was amazing and I felt really confident in talking about it. I felt. And maybe part of it is because generative AI is made for us. It's made for people who use words for a living. And it just like was putting on that glove that fits that shoe that's already broken in. It's like, okay, this I can run with this, this is something I can do. But that's not a qualification, that's just a feeling. Right. You know, but I don't. We could, we can, we will circle back, I'm sure to some of these themes. But I want to keep that in mind as we dig a little bit more into this idea of visibility and personal brand especially. And first of all, that phrase personal brand, it. I think it evokes as many reactions as AI expert does. Like, it's like personal brand. Oh, personal brand. Yes, personal brand. And I think we need to set the terms of what that means. You know, Adam Grant was on a tear recently about like, how personal brand is terrible. And, and I don't think he defines it in any, in. In a way that makes any sense at all when he's a person who has a massive personal brand and has a staff of people who are helping him to build it. And then you have Mark Schaefer, who is my idol, friend, guru, mentor, buddy. I don't know.

Natalie Moran [00:27:51]: Audacious, right?

Dan Nestle [00:27:52]: He's audacious, yes. His new book, Audacious Known. His book Known about personal brand is like so perfect for me. Like, I found it to. It was just like, yeah, this is it. And it wasn't about becoming a promotional powerhouse. It was big. It was about understanding yourself, learning where you kind of have a message that resonates and then leaning into that in a consistent and methodical way where you build yourself as somebody who is known. Not famous, but known. Which by the way, is the only way to. To almost guarantee that there's are no guarantees life. But it's the only way to insulate yourself against the vagaries of hiring and the job markets. And you know, you have to be out there as somebody who knows, who's known about something, but you're in the context of. Of what you're doing here. Right. So comps pros, right. We, we are really great at positioning other people, but not great at positioning ourselves.

Natalie Moran [00:28:54]: Yep.

Dan Nestle [00:28:54]: Right. And why is that the case? And why is. Let me hear your take on personal brand, how you define it, especially given the AI tools we have to help us with it. And let's go from there.

Natalie Moran [00:29:09]: Yeah. So to your point, I think personal branding, the term has a branding problem. It is. We need a better term for it. And I'm still not quite sure what that is, especially when you're talking to comms pros about it, who in my experience are generally a humble people who want to stay behind the scenes and like me trying to sell to them. Oh, you need a personal brand is just not going to break through. Right. There's a content creator I really respect named Brandon Smither. Smithrick. And he. He's actually the head of content at Kickstarter and is also a content creator. And I heard him describe personal branding really as sharing what you know in real time. And to me that makes it so much more accessible as a way to think about it. Right. So much of how I approach my own personal brand is learning out loud. I am building my business in public. I try to be transparent about what's working, what's not working, what I'm testing. And so that's kind of how I think about it is, is sharing your learnings. And that's what I encourage my clients to do. And, and that's something that really resonates with them because comms pros are learning all the time. Right. And so that's, that's a good kind of starting point and I think that demystifies the term a little bit for me.

Dan Nestle [00:30:38]: Just one, one quick. Maybe you're going to get to this. But it's a great way, I think, sharing learnings and sharing what you know and sort of. I love what you said about learning out loud in real time. That's so it's such a great exercise, being open to, to, to feedback and, and reactions and discussions. Isn't it important though to have a layer of your own POV and conclusion, your take on everything before. Right. Because that's, that's where the, your uniqueness, your, your own, like what you have to offer comes through. Right. I just want to make, see, I'm sure you're gonna get there, but just want to layer that on.

Natalie Moran [00:31:16]: Yeah, it's an important clarification. A hundred percent good. Thought leadership takes a perspective and kind of digs its heels in. No question. I see a lot of people trying to be thought leaders. That's another phrase that like, kind of, it's like, what does that even mean? But I see a lot of people and brands trying to be thought leaders in a space, but they are afraid to take a position and they're, they're just, you have to put. There has to be some skin in the game. There is some risk involved here and also a lot of opportunity and potential for opportunity. Right. So yes, that, that's a big thing. And so, you know, maybe it's taking it a step further. Maybe it's sharing your learnings and sharing your perspective on it. Right. But I do think there is this element, especially when it comes good LinkedIn content of behind the scenes, peek behind the curtain content that people really are hungry for and that doesn't necessarily require you to give, you know, all of your, your kind of deepest Perspectives and, and opinions on, on every topic, right. I think it's, it's about perspective and, and showing kind of the angle. So, so for I'll give you an example. So I don't have corporate comms experience, right? Like I said, I, I haven't, I don't have agents experience. I, not to completely reduce all credibility, right? But I've never worked it, I've never worked in an org that has an internal comms function, right? And I'm pretty transparent about that because a lot of people in my audience do have corporate comms experience. They ha. A lot of them work in internal comms, right. And so I, I, I see myself more than as kind of a curator where I can bring experts together and like, that's why I'm interested in putting on these events like I am. But that's kind of what I'm leaning into because that's authentic to me, right? And you know, at first I was like, oh God, like, I don't know if this is, you know, what does this mean? If I don't, you know, have this really deep background in this stuff. But then I realized, no, I don't, I don't see a lot of other people who are exploring comms way and the future of comms in this way from a very kind of trying to be humble, authentic point of view of like, what is out there. You know, like, I try to leave lead with questions. And so that's how I think about it, right? And there are so many different ways to approach it and think about it. But again, I think it just comes back to what do you value and what value do you bring? And I think for me it's, it's asking a lot of questions and kind of being curious and trying to understand and figure out what I don't know.

Dan Nestle [00:34:03]: Yeah, you'll get no arguments from me on anything that you just said because it's, it describes, it describes me sometimes. Although, apart from the, apart from the experience part.

Natalie Moran [00:34:12]: Yeah, you have that.

Dan Nestle [00:34:13]: I've been around a little. It's a little bit of agency experience and any, but you can argue, right, that you do have agency experience because you have your own business. And what are you, you are an agency, right? You're representing somebody to do, to, to create something or do something. You know, you have, you're taking on the agency of a client. And, and that's, that is, that's something to talk about. But, but I know what, I know what people mean when they say agency experience. They mean, were you at Edelman, where you had. Weber, where you had something, you know, and yeah, I have a little bit of that. I've, and I have tons of corporate experience in marketing and in communications. So, you know, I certainly have that perspective. I think that, like, favors, like, sometimes, so, so if you're talking to a CCO at a big corporation, it certainly helps if you have been in a big corporation, if they're talking about building a team, you know what building a team is about. They talk about the difficulties of internal communications. You sort of get to, you get the idea, like, without ever, without much context, however, that's, that in and of itself, that idea of comfort, of like means, like, I think is being disrupted by AI in a big way. And not just by AI, but because AI is enabling people like you and me to sort of to be on our own, to be a convener, if that's your, your strength. Because every time you convene, you learn more to be a curator, a convener, to bring different perspectives. I think it's changing the landscape a lot. Where, yeah, it's helpful maybe if you know about corporate comms from some things, but at the same time, the path ahead does not necessarily require that you've walked certain paths up until now. So it's really about your knowledge and your experience and how you deliver and what you're thinking, you know, and can you do what you say you're gonna do? That's the other part of it, right?

Natalie Moran [00:36:18]: Yeah. And, you know, in some ways, you know, again, I, you know, I've been a solo comms team. I've been on very small teams, and in some ways, I think I, it's pushed me to figure out kind of what AI can and cannot do out of kind of desperation. Right. And in so many ways, that solo experience has prepared me for what I'm doing with solopreneurship. Right. And so I wouldn't trade it. And I, I think it's, it's made me scrappy and, and adaptable and, and all these things. But specifically related to AI, I think it's, it's pushed me to figure out how the hell can this thing help me through this, you know, because I need support and pushing it and testing it instead of just, oh, this is fun, let's see what it can do. It's like, no, I, I, I really kind of needed help, you know, and I tried to figure out how large language models could, could support me in, in build, Building my capacity.

Dan Nestle [00:37:18]: Absolutely. That's, I think that makes, that's one of the key differentiators between, in the ways that people are adopting AI and kind of treating AI because yeah, it helped me, it helps me make stuff that's one way to look at, helps me be something is another thing. Or it helps me fill in those gaps that I have because I want to be something. I don't know how to get there or I have a clue of how to get there, but I'm lacking certain skills. There are certain miracles that AI can play in that, in that world that get you to where you need to get to that you could not have done before. You know, running a business is just one of those things and dealing with the minutia of, of your day to day is, you know, some of it can be automated now, but even things like planning or like, like creating like sows or proposals or you know, name you name would take hours and hours to write out an RFP response. And now you've slimmed that down to minutes and minutes, very likely. So yeah, massive advantage for solopreneurs or for people running their own business, AI has brought a lot more to the table. But circling back to why leaders need to be visible, their personal brand and, and how AI helps with that, I think we're sort of alluding to it in some ways. AI does remove some of the, I think excuses. But you know, what's your view on, in the communications profession? The lack of personal brand and how it like and the lack of attention on one's own visibility. I think it's, I think it's dangerous or I think it's shortsighted at best.

Natalie Moran [00:39:21]: Yeah. I, in my, from what I've found talking to clients about this, we have been trained as communications professionals to not be the story. Right. Especially if you're a former journalist. I talked to an executive coach recently, Katie Neal, about this. She, she said that she was like former journalists. We are trained, you know, not to be the story. Right. And I, I have, I approach it with a lot of empathy for that reason. Right. I also think, you know, I talked to one client and she said I am afraid to post on LinkedIn because I'm afraid I'm going to post something and hop on a plane and get off and it's gone viral for all the wrong reasons. Right. Like, you know, that's happened to people. And I say we know better for the most part. Right. Like speaking generally, we know better because I think as comms professionals we are trained to think of every which way a message can be interpreted and that is A strength, right. I mean, that's why I'm up at night thinking about, like, how am I talking about AI? Is it serving my audience? You know, am I, you know, and I think that's a strength. Right? And so, but it's so true. I mean, I, I quickly realized that there is a real market for coaching comms professionals on how to talk about themselves and how to promote themselves. Because by the time people real realize they need to do it, it's too late. They've been laid off. They are, you know, totally burnt out and ready for their next opportunity. And there are cobwebs all over their LinkedIn profile, you know. Yeah. And that to me is kind of sad because these are really talented people, but they haven't invested the time in telling their own stories. And it is this, you know, every. It seems like everyone I talk to, they're like, yes, the cobbler's children have no shoes. I mean, that's really what it is. It's like people, these people can message in anything, but when it comes to themselves, it is. It feels unnatural and, and it doesn't. It just, it doesn't come naturally. Right?

Dan Nestle [00:41:32]: Yeah.

Natalie Moran [00:41:33]: And they know it, but they really need support in kind of figuring out, okay, what. What really lights you up? What do you value? What value do you bring? What are your content pillars? What are you comfortable kind of pushing the envelope on? What are you, you know, what projects are you comfortable talking about? What about, you know, what failures have you had? Can, can we put those out there? You know, a lot of. So I'll say this. I am a big believer in niching down. Right. My business is super niche and I. A lot of the people I coach, I Look at their LinkedIn profile and it says, basically, I do strategic communications for corporations. And that tells people nothing. Right. And so what I work with people to do is thread the needle of how do we talk about this wide range of experience? It's a lot of generalists who I work with at a very high level, you know, who have a wide range of deep experience. How do I talk about myself and my experience in an authentic way while not pigeonholing myself. Right. And still being open to opportunities. And that is something that I really have to kind of unpack with people about, you know, okay, I'm seeing these patterns. We need to shine a light on the fact that you really have, you know, kind of moved the needle on employee engagement and internal comms and also, you know, media relations and, you know, whatever it may be. But. But you Know, it's like when you're talking to everyone you're talking to, no one is kind of the idea. And, and people, sometimes they, you know, these people are experts in that I'm not telling them anything they don't know, but reflecting it back to them, I think is helpful.

Dan Nestle [00:43:19]: You're totally right. And there's also, I think there's, there's a couple of things because comms people are so attuned to the story and you know, to, to okay the, the cause and effect and the of. Of what happens if I say this or write this, then this happens. If I say, you know, there's this constant, this constant kind of simulations, stream of simulations happening in your head, which is an amazing thing, could be a superpower. But taken to its extreme, it's an analysis paralysis invitation. And that, I think, is like obstacle number one is that analysis paralysis. Obstacle number two is this comfort with telling the other story or with getting so deeply immersed in a story, whether it's your client or your corporation, you know, or, you know, your employer. Whether it's for internal audiences, for whatever audience it does. You're, you're, you are. You've given yourself over to this other story and you've made it yours. So you squeeze your own out. And in some ways it's safe ground. Like, it's super safe. I don't have to worry about anybody else. I'm so good at telling this story. I am now, like, I am so deeply vested. And it's also maybe why burnout happens, but, but, you know, and why people can put ethics and things aside sometimes because they're so vested in the story that they're trying to tell. For communicators, even more so. Right. And, you know, you're so attuned to the written word or to a turn of phrase. It's almost an art, you know, it's almost like your art. I think I would argue for many people, it is your art. So whether you have a patron for your art or you're doing it for yourself, if it's being fulfilled, then you're not going to like, add to that by doing your own, your own versions. You don't want to conflict with that. There's all these. And there's so many layers. So, you know, this idea that people need to. Communicators really should understand this, the value of, of the, of promoting or putting out, developing their own personal brand. I mean, I can understand why there's a lot of kind of resistance to it, you know, and, and there's the, the final one. I'd say there's one more which is just this sort of mindset, like, okay, I was hired by this company to be their communicator and I'm, you know, I'm either in senior level or I'm the cco, for crying out. Whatever it is, whatever I say is going to be very high. You know, it's going to be highly kind of weighted. So, you know, I feel like I'm cheating if I don't devote every minute of my life to them. You know, like, I'm obligated. And, and I have felt this in the past. I have. You know, my podcast does not take a lot of time. Like, it takes time, but in the world we live in, where you can be a flex, where you have flexible work or you, you're like, you're not being measured necessarily, I hope, by the hours that you put in every week. Like, I felt really guilty for doing my show for the first couple years because I was employed and I felt like, oh my gosh, they're going to think that I'm like, I'm like digging into their time to do my stuff. And I don't think I ever got rid of that feeling. I plowed ahead anyway. But, you know, so I totally feel it. And it's certainly easier to go out there, do things on your own when you have to. But. But it helped a lot to get a, to get a. To get that confidence in that where you finally have that moment. You're like, oh, yeah, this is what I need to be talking about.

Natalie Moran [00:47:02]: Yeah.

Dan Nestle [00:47:03]: To define the brand.

Natalie Moran [00:47:04]: Yeah. I think fundamentally is. Is comms professionals are unpracticed at talking about themselves. And, and that's why I try to have, you know, I try to approach it with some empathy. These are smart people, they're totally capable, but they just are not practiced at exploring kind of what makes them unique and what differentiates them until like the night before a big interview for a job or something. Right.

Dan Nestle [00:47:26]: Y.

Natalie Moran [00:47:27]: And I also think, you know, there, it's interesting. I felt when I was in nonprofit comms, I was often in these risk averse environments. You know, it's, you know, wordsmithing every sentence, kind of combing over every other.

Dan Nestle [00:47:49]: Word right in there.

Natalie Moran [00:47:52]: And now as a solopreneur, I absolutely have to have a bias towards action. And it is completely unnatural for me, but it is like a sink or swim moment. I realized where if I am not out there testing things and putting things out there that are imperfect, this doesn't work. Right. And so that's just another kind of element of my communications background and how some of those lessons I've learned have kind of had to be unlearned. Right. And I think whether it's, you know, a comms career or solopreneurship, you have to be comfortable talking about yourself and the value you bring. And I just can't emphasize it enough. And I have had to really kind of get over my perfectionist tendencies, which will be a lifelong journey. Right. I mean, it's all of these things, but we, I think, have been trained in such a way that makes it so that we're just unpracticed at talking about ourselves. And it doesn't mean it can't change, but it does mean that there's some work to be done around kind of self exploration and figuring out how we're willing to frame kind of ourselves.

Dan Nestle [00:49:05]: Yeah, I want to take that even to a deeper level here for a minute. And I know we're just. There's so many things to talk about, but I want to kind of stay here because this is so good. AI. Right. So the advent of AI and the disruption happening to our market, to our audiences, to our careers. Right. We go back to what we said at the beginning with, you know, threats to employment or the. The perceived threat to your job, personal brand, or, or let's just start talk, calling it being able to talk about yourself and put your own ideas forward.

Natalie Moran [00:49:40]: Right.

Dan Nestle [00:49:40]: In your own way, with your own perspective, regularly, consistently, for a long time. Whatever you want to call that.

Natalie Moran [00:49:47]: Yeah, yeah.

Dan Nestle [00:49:49]: Trademark, you know, is, in my mind, is. Is. Is more important than ever. Ever, ever. In fact, it's a necessity. And I would say that you've got, you know, you've got a choice. You can either totally ignore that and continue to, like, just forget about developing your own perspective and keep trying to do it for other people or other companies. Right. Then in that case, there's going to be a certain role AI plays and you may not like it, or you can go out there and you can build up your own content, build up your own point of view and continue to do that. And then there's a different role AI plays for that person. And that is up to. Okay, if you notice it and if you can figure it out, well, then AI takes on a whole different role in your world. I'm leaving it a little ambiguous for a reason, but, you know, without the personal brand, you can be replaced more easily. Doesn't mean you'd be replaced, but it means you'd be replaced certainly more easily or what. You know, some of the. Some of the outputs that you do can be replaced, you know, but with your personal brand or with your own personal stuff, it's so much more difficult to be replaced. So I guess what I'm saying is where. Where is. Where does AI come into play with all of this? In the world of personal brand and like, what you're talking to with your audiences and your clients about this.

Natalie Moran [00:51:33]: It makes having your own unique and authentic voice all the more important because there is so much, what people call AI slop out there. AI generated content.

Dan Nestle [00:51:46]: Yeah, Martin Waxman taught me that one. Yeah.

Natalie Moran [00:51:50]: Yeah. That does not. That isn't going to break through. That's not going to resonate. And so if you're able to tell stories and if you're able to put together messages that are extremely compelling and encourage people and influence. That. Influence people to act in a way that you want them to. Right. Which is what comms professionals do. I mean, how powerful? Right. And that's why it's not just. This is why I'm so passionate about this. It's not just only that comms professionals are missing an opportunity by not promoting themselves. It's that we are uniquely positioned to do it really well. And that's why I'm like you guys. I mean, you know what I mean? Like, it's not only that we're. That we're kind of missing the mark in terms of conveying our value, it's that we have the tools to do it extremely well. I think the premium on being a good storyteller is higher now than it's ever been. That is a very, very valuable skill, I think, in the world of AI. Right. Certainly. I think to your point, we can use AI to support our content creation and help us build their personal brand and talk about the things that we know. Right. And I think that's a worthwhile conversation. I also think we as communicators are uniquely equipped to set ourselves apart in a world that starts to cut. Where everything starts to sound the same. Right, for sure.

Dan Nestle [00:53:32]: Yeah.

Natalie Moran [00:53:33]: And so, again, it's like if you have the storytelling toolkit, which so many of us have, and if you're able to leverage AI in a way where you really understand what makes a good prompt and how to get really good outputs out of an LLM, how powerful is that? Right. And I think that's. That's maybe, as I think about it, why I kind of get defensive sometimes about it, because to me, I Just want to be like, this is such an opportunity and we are just as communications professionals steps away from just crushing this, you know, And I just want people to see that and notice it and understand it because I see it so clearly. And sometimes I'm like, am I missing something? But I think once I had that wake up call, that was a really exciting moment for me to be like, oh, I see a corner of the world that I can carve out for myself and do it really well.

Dan Nestle [00:54:32]: Yeah, I have the same feelings for sure. How boring is it? I have a guest. I agree with everything she said. I usually agree with my guests.

Natalie Moran [00:54:42]: We have a lot in common.

Dan Nestle [00:54:44]: We know, we certainly do, but we're just, just. It's interesting that the defensiveness is funny. I'll get to that in a second. But I do want to shake people, you know, I want to like, what's wrong with you? You know, you need to. Can't you see? Can't you see? You know, that's not, unfortunately, that's not a community, an effective way of communicating with people. I, I agree. You know, it's so interesting to think about the, the decades of digital content that we have been creating and how, you know, in one day now, and I forget what the exact statistic is, it might be in one day, I, I forget. But like in one day the sum total of all content up to that point is created. Again, like is like. So in other words, content doubles every single day. And I don't know if that's true. So do not fact check me on this, people. It could be every hour, it could be every week. But the point is that there's, you know, that there are capacity to create or to make things has increased far beyond our capacity to judge quality. And that scares a lot of people in ways I understand. But if you think about all the stuff that you have created, you've written, you've said, you've spoken, you've recorded up to this point, that's not going to be recreated. That's your stuff. Those are the stories and the unique turns of phrase and word usage you have. And whatever points of view you've expressed, the ideas that are out there, you know, that's still yours and you still have it. It's not like suddenly, okay, a teenager can get on chat GPT and write an essay about, you know, about the effect of AI and communications. Okay, that makes us all useless, right? Because somebody can talk about it. No, they can't get anything close to a compelling story because your own, it's your own stories and your own personal work that nothing can replicate. But at the same time, AI now gives you this opportunity, this rare or kind of unique once in a lifetime opportunity maybe to be like, holy shit, I have all this stuff and I'm a, I, I, I haven't used it for anything other than I've put it out there and just, okay, it's gone, it's gone in the wind. I mean, the opportunity is tremendous. I'm a little bit self, self interested here because this is kind of the core of what I'm trying to do for people. Right. But like, I look at five years of podcasting, you know, a hundred and whatever episodes, each one of them has 20,000 words worth of stuff. So maybe half or, or, or two thirds of that depends because I do talk a lot is my words are my words, that's my content. Right. Those are my ideas. Why shouldn't I be using that? Like, why, like AI is not going to be able to like, repeat or recreate any of that. So there is a big opportunity here for building your own, like, body of knowledge personal brand, if you will, that nobody else has because nobody else is you. And now you can discover more about what makes you you with the exploratory assistance of these extremely, you know, broad based, brilliant black boxes that we call LLMs. And we've never had that before. Like, I'm not saying that to discover your personal brand, you should go and, and take all your content and say, what's my personal brand? Because the, that personal exercise of going through and thinking things through is so important. Right. But it does help, does help lighten the lift. You know, I, that was a little soapboxy. I'm sorry, but I think that there's, there's so much there that we need to kind of continue to push.

Natalie Moran [00:59:03]: Yeah. I want to add, I've, we've talked to our friend Bo Brooklander about this. He and I had a really helpful conversation a couple months ago because we were kind of reminding each other he's another friend in the comms and AI space. And we were reminding each other that we are far ahead of our target audience. Right. And so, because I started to get a little bit worried about, you know, hearing all these people who are machine learning experts, and I'm like, I, you know, I am clearly not that. And you know, but what I realized is their target audience is me. My target audience is people who haven't kind of had these aha moments that we've had maybe. Right?

Dan Nestle [00:59:52]: Yeah.

Natalie Moran [00:59:53]: And So I was telling Beau, I said, you know, I created this small prompt library, right. For comms professionals. And I really think it would be helpful because I feel like often a barrier to entry for people using LLMs is that they don't even know what's possible or what the use cases are. Right. Like they're thinking about, oh, I can write an Instagram caption, I can write a blog post, but beyond that like they're not quite sure. And he said, oh my God, you have to put that out, you know, Cause I had basically created it like a year ago and it was just collecting digital dust.

Dan Nestle [01:00:26]: Yeah.

Natalie Moran [01:00:27]: And it was to. Up till that point when I put it out, it was my highest performing post ever on LinkedIn. And it kind of went, you know, people were interested. Right. And it was such a good reminder for me that I need to have those kind of check ins with myself to think about like, what is my journey in all of this and where is my target audience at? And I do think something I try to really kind of help people understand is what these tools can and cannot do for us. And this prompt library I put out was solely focused on strategic communications planning. Like I said, I, I intentionally created it to be not about generating content. Right?

Dan Nestle [01:01:09]: Yep.

Natalie Moran [01:01:10]: And I think a lot of people had kind of some aha. Moments around that where they were like, oh, I didn't realize I could use this to help me create a crisis comm simulation exercise for my team.

Dan Nestle [01:01:23]: Right. Yeah.

Natalie Moran [01:01:25]: And that stuff is what's really powerful. And it's from a, from a, a, from an energy perspective, maybe not, but from a cost perspective, like dollars and cents. It's a really inexpensive way to equip your team with, with tools like that that you maybe wouldn't have otherwise.

Dan Nestle [01:01:44]: Yeah. Especially, especially if you are a smaller team with, with fewer resources or you're just one person out there in the wind. Right. Like the power of, of having an entire think tank at your disposal just by saying three or four very simple. Beginning your prompt with three or four very simple words gives you suddenly a marketing team. Act as a marketing executive with a specialty in planning, whatever it is. Act as a strategic communications consultant. Just that. Now, now you've hired at, at worst an average employee who's going to be able to give you that stuff. At best a PhD student who's going to be able to, to give you that depending on what you ask it. And frankly, if you can hire anything between the average and the Ph.D. then you've done this good hire. Right. Your Money's worth for fractions of a cent of $20 a month. Right. So. So there's, there's so much there that I think people have yet to unlock or they're slowly unlocking. And by the way, Beau Brooklander will be on the show at some point for sure. And secondly, well, we will link to your prompt library in the notes because I've, I've used it. It's great. I mean, it's just fantastic. Very useful. And, you know, I always, I take these things and run with them and go in different directions and then. And break them and put them back together and just have a lot of fun.

Natalie Moran [01:03:23]: Yeah. And just quickly, I mentioned kind of where we're all at in our journeys, because I think at that moment when I was really grappling with should I put this out or not, my audience was telling me that it would be helpful, but the people who are further along than I am were saying prompt libraries are totally useless. Right. And. But what I realized is you have people, a lot of people in my audience who are still kind of like at square three, maybe, Right. Who don't know what makes a good prompt. Right. And so just telling them just talk to it isn't helpful. And it's not going to come like, you're not going to get good outputs from that. So, again, it's know your audience. Right. And that is, that cannot be kind of understated, the importance of that.

Dan Nestle [01:04:12]: That, I mean, something you said is so important. We're not writing for our heroes. We're writing for the people we need to help. So, you know, I'm not going to write something that Chris Penn is going to turn around. And by the way, Christopher Penn, brilliant, amazing thinker, but I highly doubt that there's anything that I could write about, prompting, for example, where Chris Penn wouldn't be able to, to look at it and go, by the way, he would never say something bad about it. He would probably say, this is great, but where he couldn't turn around and go, yeah, it's not for me. Like, I, I, I here, I do that 300 ways from Sunday in, you know, in the first five seconds of my day, granted. But I'm not writing for Chris. I'm writing for, you know, for my audiences and for the people who need it. You know, and if I do want to write something for you or for Chris or something, it'll be like, hey, listen, I need some, need some thoughts on this. Colleagues, friends, peers. What are you thinking? And that's a different type of activity. You know, this, this podcast episode, I'm sure that the, the quote unquote thought leaders and I know we don't like that word but in our, in our space are going to love this episode. They're going to love this conversation, you know, but there's going to be so many people out there who are like, damn. So that's what I need to do around personal brand. That's. I really need to think the way, change the way I think about AI. And that's what we want. That's who we really want to talk to. Right? Look, we can go on and on forever and in fact, I'm, I'm going to have to have you back on the show. I know. It's okay. That said, I want to wrap up with a couple of quickies. Right? Or a couple things that I want to know. Two things and let's combine it, right? The first of all, where do you think we're going in comps? All right, so where is this all going? So yes, put on the futurist hat just a little bit. And secondly, you know, what are the, you know, three to five things that people should be doing right now to either succeed now or prepare for that future that you're about to tell us about.

Natalie Moran [01:06:31]: So I think being visible online and having an online presence is the new first impression times 100. You have to have an online presence and it's career insurance. It's all the things. So maybe that answers both of your questions as far as like that is a must. Right? The other thing, I am really interested in the role of micro influencers and content creators and how that's impacting PR and comms. We didn't even get there. Maybe that's the next episode. I like it, but I think about this a lot because I see myself as kind of having a foot in that world.

Dan Nestle [01:07:20]: I was gonna say I've been, I've been called a micro influencer here and there, never an influencer. I'm lucky if I get to micro. Usually it's nano.

Natalie Moran [01:07:30]: Yeah. So that's not something I would have really identified as a year ago, even six months ago. But I'm recognizing that is where things are headed. B2B companies especially are looking to people like us who have, you know, moderately sized followings but very hyper specific audiences to promote products and services, period. And I think that really is reshaping how we approach especially pr, right. And marketing and all the things. But I think there is, I'm very interested in kind of the role of micro influencers and creators.

Dan Nestle [01:08:17]: Feels like you might have read my piece. Media relations is dying and we need to let it go. I mean, it's. Yes, that's, that's exactly, that's part of the core argument. The fracturing of audiences and the fracturing of media coming together. So, you know, I may not have a million people listening to this podcast, although I should. No, but I may not have. I may never get to thousands. But the, the people who do listen are the most important people on earth. I love you all, but you are like, seriously, these are important people. This is. You want, you want to reach PR people and communications people. It's a good idea to be on my show.

Natalie Moran [01:09:00]: You know, I mean, you think about the power of like me being able to tell a brand. 70% of my audience is, is a decision maker in the comms and PR field. Yeah, 70% are at director level or above. Right. Like, like. And that is a big deal for, you know, a, a smaller com or a comms or PR tool that is trying to like, break into that market. Right.

Dan Nestle [01:09:24]: 100%.

Natalie Moran [01:09:24]: And so I think that's really interesting and, and we should, you know, think carefully about what that means for, for PR and comms. The other thing, of course, is exploring AI and, and trying to play with it and understand what it can and cannot do. I, I mean, it's already kind of seeping into every aspect of my life, as far as I can tell. And that's not gonna be reversed anytime soon. And I think at a certain point it's kind of recognizing that and accepting that and figuring out how can you adapt to keep up with that. And that's kind of the attitude that I think is gonna serve people well. Right. And so to me, what I'm really thinking about a lot right now in terms of kind of what's next, what does the future look like? Is. And really it's questions that I have, right? It's how are micro influencers impacting our field in our profession and our day to day work? How are we promoting ourselves and making sure that we're not thinking, oh, the work will speak for itself, because it won't. This world is only getting noisier. We have to figure out a way to kind of stand out in it. And, and then this idea, you know, and then this, this reality that if we don't experiment and, and grapple with and try to understand how we can benefit from AI, there is real risk in that.

Dan Nestle [01:11:03]: 100% agree with you on all of those points. I Think I've said that like seven times during this episode. I agree with you. Agree with you. I agree with you. No, you're right. And. And it's, you know, it's. Those are important things to think about as we move forward in comms. And, you know, we're both concerned with the future of communications. You know, I. I can't. I can't stress the concept of just going out there and playing. I mean, enough, you know, just sit down with your phone, your PC, your Mac. If you're on a work thing that you're not allowed to use it, well, then go someplace, borrow your mother's. I don't know what you do right. But play. You gotta find some way to play. Look, there's so much, I think, more that we can talk about, and I want you to come back on the show. And I don't know when exactly when this is going to air. It's probably going to air after our webinar, but you and I are going to be on a webinar together in, In July for comms consultants. And shout out to commsconsultants.com and Ashley Dennison, also a former guest of or, you know, an alumnus or alumna, a former guest of the show. Ashley's been terrific and certainly is, is one of the two reasons that I've met you, Natalie. The other one was Daniel Mendez recommended you. So there's like two different things there. But. But we'll be on that webinar together. And you're doing some really great work coming up soon. Right. You have reimagine. Can you tell us a little bit about reimagine?

Natalie Moran [01:12:43]: Yeah. So this is a virtual event series that I'm putting on this summer. So one event in June and two in July. And it's all around the challenges that comms professionals are facing right now. And these aren't necessarily new challenges, but I think they're especially pronounced in 2025. Right. We'll be hitting on three topics. One is this kind of constant state of urgency that a lot of communicators live in, and how do we navigate the crises and the chaos and. And the urgency while caring for ourselves and preventing burnout to the extent that is possible and that we can while still keeping our audiences engaged. Right. So that's a biggie. The second one is around the invisible work of comms. And so that is kind of what aspects of our work, like the strategic planning, the relationship building, a lot of internal comms. What is kind of the work we do that's so important and we know really has impact but is harder to measure. Kind of putting our finger on what that work is. How do we measure and message our impact to leaders, to future employers. And then the third one is the futures of comms and I make it plural because I want to touch on all the things. It's AI, it's micro influencers, it's its personal brand or whatever like trademark new thing title you gave it. But yeah, so I'm really excited. Each one is gonna have three expert panelists and yeah, I think it's gonna be great. I really am excited about putting on more events like this and kind of bringing experts together that really are representative of the comms community and bringing a wide range of voices together to, you know, bring a whole bunch of insights to the audience. So that's what I'm up to.

Dan Nestle [01:14:56]: Well, I know that's going to be fantastic. I don't know if the show is going to air in time for that, but I know that you're going to do the same thing or you're going to do more in the future with that. I do recommend or in fact urge you to go through the trendy communicator guests of whom you are now one for panelists for these things because you really. We have some of the greatest thinkers in our field and some who are tangential but relatively like off the radar that I think we need to be paying attention to. So, so please do, do give our trending communicator community I suppose a look see. And yeah, I, I really do think that, you know, this is, you're going to be some, someone to continue to watch. I can't wait to see how you grow and how you go from micro to macro in your influencer state, whatever that may mean for comms. But everybody out there, if you want to find Natalie, go to like LinkedIn is the best place. I mean, you know, we're both on there all the time, but LinkedIn you go to go to find Natalie Moran on LinkedIn.com I'm sure there might be a few Natalie Moran's, but there aren't going to be any who are comms futurists with AI all over their, all over their profile. Her name will be spelled properly in the episode title. Also check out her website@commsfuturist.com and you know, Natalie informs me that it's a work in progress, as we are individually and certainly as biologists, my own website always is. So I totally understand. But you know, check back in from time to time as that will be continued continuously updated any place else. Natalie, that I missed that you're going to be at or that you want people to find you where you want people find you.

Natalie Moran [01:16:52]: No, I, I'll share a quick dream of mine for 2026 though is I, I, I really want to do an in person kind of tour across some cities in the US and and the UK exploring the future of comms and I say it because I'm kind of looking for sponsors if anyone's interested. Pretty cool opportunity for a cool comms tool. Anyway, I, yeah I, I'll be talking more about that probably. So if anyone's.

Dan Nestle [01:17:27]: You could be like the Anthony Bourdain.

Natalie Moran [01:17:28]: Of comms 100 exactly.

Dan Nestle [01:17:31]: Yeah. Yeah. Did I get that? That like just off the top of my head. Look at that. That'd be so amazing. Or Stanley Tucci. I don't know which where, where you stand on that one, but I look forward to seeing you in a town near me and would absolutely join you on that tour for any leg of it that I am able to if I will be welcomed. The other part, I guess the other thing is is you know we need to stay in touch because you're going to come back on the show at some point and everybody out there, thank you. Please do, do reach out to Natalie for anything having to do with what you've heard today. And Natalie, thank you so much for being on the show. What, what fun.

Natalie Moran [01:18:08]: Thank you Dan. What fun. This was lovely. Yeah great to great to chat.

Dan Nestle [01:18:18]: Thanks for taking the time to listen in on today's conversation. If you enjoyed it, please be sure to subscribe through the podcast cast player of your choice. Share with your friends and colleagues and leave me a review. Five stars would be preferred, but it's up to you. Do you have ideas for future guests or you want to be on the show? Let me know@dantrendingcommunicator.com thanks again for listening to the trending Communicator.